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Re: #42 vs. #43 -- e.g., number of turns vs. DCR


 
5/17/2006 4:56 PM
jasin lollar
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Re: #42 vs. #43 -- e.g., number of turns vs. DCR
Still its not linear. most noticeable on P-90's, check it out when you get that far.  
 
Once you get up to a certain point adding 200 turns on a P-90 will read far higher than adding 200 turns early on in the winding.  
42 gauge will have a larger coil than 43.  
You can come up with a rough idea but its never going to be accurate.  
In the end youll be able to take a guess and hit it close without a formula.
 
5/17/2006 5:08 PM
Zhangliqun
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Yes, outer turns will be longer than inner turns on any pickup -- and because a P90 has the largest coil of any conventional pickup, the difference will be much more pronounced.
 
 
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5/17/2006 7:43 PM
Dave Stephens
Maybe I'm missing something here. My side comment to all this is you need to get an LCR meter. There's no other way to get very closely matched repeatable coils for production. A slight tension change and your wire stretches thinner, the DC resistance goes up, you think you hit your DCR mark but your turns count will be lower, the tone of the pickup changes. Turns count is a good way to go but then you are hand scattering and thats not repeatable so the tone changes. With an LCR meter you have an inductance reading for two frequency tests, you have AC resistance measurements for both frequency tests, and you have Q values for both frequencies. So you wind a pickup that kicks ass for you, don't sell it, keep it as a "master" pickup, write down all its readings, and check it again when the weather gets hot or cold because the readings will change with temperature. If you're selling pickups its important that what you send out is quality checked to be what you intended it to be otherwise you are sending out "works of art" that might be good, might not. With an LCR meter as a tool you will have a set of readings and its easy to tell if what you wound is in the ball park or not, It will also tell you if you have a coil short whe nothing else really will.  
 
I had to laugh at some bozo on Ebay selling PAF pickups, he says in his auction that "each pickup is individual and no two are alike, just like the real PAFs were." What a f*cking amateur, you can bet he's buying his parts at StewMac and thinks he's a genius :-) I'm seeing more and more guys like that on Ebay, they scare me.....
 
5/17/2006 8:00 PM
noobee
Quote Dave Stephens " I had to laugh at some bozo on Ebay selling PAF pickups, he says in his auction that "each pickup is individual and no two are alike, just like the real PAFs were." What a f*cking amateur, you can bet he's buying his parts at StewMac and thinks he's a genius :-) I'm seeing more and more guys like that on Ebay, they scare me.....  
 
Some guys still wind by hand and test everyone that goes out, is this wrong? So what, I'm pretty sure they sound great, and if I remember every PAF was a little different weren't they? Just wound till the bobbin was full. No checking there much. So are these guys so much different and what makes them F*cking amatures dave? Did you atart out a pro? I admit there are some freaks out there selling pickups made in a winder made from popsicle sticks or something but some of those guys know how to wind a pickup and it doesn't take an extech meter to make it so. All they need is their ears and a brain and know how they wound the ones before and there you go.
 
5/17/2006 10:51 PM
BD
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There is so much more to winding pickups than putting some wire on a bobbin. It is an art and a science.  
 
Those woman who wound pickups for Gibson were probably very knowledgeable about winding bobbins. I was told they were hired because they knew how to use a sewing machine. That's not easy....I tried.  
 
The more I learn about correctly making pickups the more I respect those who do it right.  
 
Any idiot can make a pickup but how will it sound and how long before it goes bad?  
 
I really don't think anybody should sell their wares until they have a proven product. That product should be able to be duplicated consistently.  
 
I build guitars and amps and they sound and play great, for me. I would "NEVER" sell any of them. I just don't think my workmanship is up to the high standards I would expect from a person who has to answer to his customers if they are not satisfied.  
 
As for ears and a brain.....that's basically all I have and it's not enough. Only prefect is good enough otherwise you will run into a lot of customer service problems. Even then you will always have at least one person that no matter what you do, they will never be happy.  
 
It doesn't take a genius to make pickups but it does take a dedicated craftsman. Attention to the smallest detail and extreme pride in what they do otherwise it will be, basically a piece of junk.
 
5/18/2006 4:07 AM
Hummer
A sewing machine! Come on! If it was a CNC operated lathe I could understand your concern!  
 
At 8 hours a day, i guess the Gibson ladies were winding at least 30 bobbins a day (and that would be slack...). You'd get the hang of it within a week...You'd have hit 200 pickups within a fortnight...And you'd have someone (Seth Lover), looking over your shoulder helping you out. I think you'd get it. In a production setting, winders wind...there are no distractions.  
 
Agree with the rest of your post though...
 
5/18/2006 9:15 AM
BD
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I'm serious about the sewing machine thing. You have to know how to wind the thread on the bobbins. I had a talk Lindy Fralin about this. I also know for a fact that Larry DiMarzio was only hiring woman to wind his pickups in the 70's, I tried to get a job there though some mutual friends, I live on Staten Island.  
 
So they already knew how to wind a bobbin. That's one reason you have so many different coils. They didn't care about what the thing sounded like, they just had to fill a bobbin with wire. Just like on the bobbins for thread. No training needed and nobody watching them. I'm sure all Gibson cared about was how many bobbins you made and if they worked, then on to the assembly part.  
 
Again nobody cared what it sounded like, they just grabbed parts from a bin and put it together. I'm sure somebody tested them before they were put into a guitar. Probably a guy with a VOM of some kind just to make sure they had DC resistance. Then into another bin and from there into a guitar.
 
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