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Re: Conservative College Students Allege Discrimination!

11/16/2005 7:07 PM
steve rathmann Re: Conservative College Students Allege Discrimination!
I don't mean to be contentious, but I have absolutely no point of reference in reality on which to relate to your comments.  
Bush supporters are liberals? I don't think so.  
Most liberals love GW Bush? Um, no.  
Can you elaborate on your definitions? Because my notion of the labels of "liberal" and "conservative" seem to be way different than yours. Although I dislike the use of labelling since it implies an absolute which isn't necessarily real I recognize its necessity when discussing generalities.  
Can you refresh my memory regarding the culture and values established by our founding fathers? If memory serves Jefferson was a progressively thinking man who sought to end the trade inequality with Britain (the colonies being by definition the unfortunate side of a mercantile duality) He was influenced in large part by French philosphers and revolution. He believed in the inherent equality of all men yet he owned slaves. And he was a deist - He believed something set the forces of the universe into motion and then let everything run its course.  
"Our morals and civilization are dying. It sounds like you are more part of the problem than the solution."
By definition that which is conservative or is resistant to change will eventually die. Dynamic systems which strike a balance between prudence and progress will adapt and even thrive in any environment.  
And lastly to those who consider themselves conservatives and feel like conservatism is repressed on college campuses I would like to ask the following. (although I'm sure there will be whip smart flames, I'm asking in all sincerity since I'm intrigued by the notion)  
What is the purpose of education?
11/17/2005 8:37 AM
If you don't understand that Bush is running the biggest deficits in the history of American government then there is no help for you.  
Bush has increased government not lessened it.  
Are you blind?
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11/17/2005 11:05 AM
steve rathmann
No no. I completely agree with you on that point.  
What I don't agree with is the notion that his financial irresponsibility somehow equates to liberals loving him.  
I also agree that it is traditionally conservative to want to curb spending and be fiscally prudent, whereas liberals are more willing to incur costs for the proposed benefit of the common good.  
However Bush's spending agenda is nowhere near that of the typical Democrat/liberal. It's not like he's engaging in massive public works projects or putting money into social programs.  
He's launched a war which looks to have an incredibly low ROI no matter how you look at it. Even if he were to come out and say directly that the war was being fought to build a US friendly non-OPEC member state so we can have cheaper crude it STILL is a bad investment since they probably wouldn't be able to produce for at least a decade or more. How long will it take to pay off his debt?  
And for the reasons actually given, fighting terror and spreading democracy, well clearly the terror thing is a joke and the jury is still out on how well democracy takes hold.  
But back to the original topic...  
I will admit my question was loaded since I do feel that the pursuit of knowledge and higher eduction requires a certain open-mindedness and so is by definition not conservative.  
In my expereince, outspoken students with strong ideology on either side of the spectrum are encouraged to tone it down if it impeeds their abilitly to accept new ideas.
11/17/2005 11:00 AM
Dave Rich
" The natural progression of things is for Liberty to yield to Tyranny."  
-Thomas Jefferson (paraphrasing from memory)  
Jefferson and the founding fathers distrusted the institution of government because they believed it was inherently prone to tyranny. That's why they set very strict limitations on the powers of the federal government. The great philosophical issue they were dealing with in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers, was the power of the State (government) vs. the power of the Individual.  
They hoped, against the tide of history, that an enlightened and ever vigilant people would resist the inevitable encroachment of State power upon individual liberty. They were wrong.  
Today, the federal government encroaches on our liberty in innumerable ways;  
-Oppressive taxation, eminent domain, excessive regulation, restrictions on free speech, federal usurpation of state and local powers,... I could go on...
11/17/2005 11:25 AM
Pierre Debs
....Today, the federal government encroaches on our liberty in innumerable ways;  
-Oppressive taxation, eminent domain, excessive regulation, restrictions on free speech, federal usurpation of state and local powers,... I could go on...  
sounds like communism gone awry
11/17/2005 11:58 AM
steve rathmann
Thanks for the reminder. Yes, that's right it wasn't just King George they were concerned with but the organization of government in general.  
Things have changed since then and we've had the industrial revolution, the birth of stock market economies, and the rise of super-corps. Power centralized in the the government is no longer such an easy target to spot.  
Doesn't it seem that the same fears and concerns regarding power of State vs. power of Individual are present with power of the Corporation vs. the power of the Individual? Yet corporations have no such restrictions against tyrannical behaviors toward their employees. The FFs were wise enough to create the Supreme Court to keep a check on the legislature and executive. So who plays referee in the case of corporations?
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