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lets hear it for the boys....


 
5/7/2005 4:07 PM
pierre debs lets hear it for the boys....
ford and GM now junk bonds.  
Okay lets make some bets ...which is the next major company to go bankrupt? Betcha it won´t be any of the PIPs buddies.  
I love capitalism, makes me happy!  
 
Good night  
 
Pierre
 
5/8/2005 1:54 PM
Anonorant
Since they make junk cars, no wonder...  
Although, a lot of industries depend on them, so I suppose they won't allowed to go under. Wouldn't mind seeing all the retires fat pensions dissapear though (the reason that the US auto companys can't compete, especially GM). The US auto industry is a socialist entity, not to be confused with capitalism.
 
 
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5/8/2005 2:55 PM
GregP
Annorant,  
Could you please support your claim?
 
5/8/2005 5:44 PM
Anonorant
I believe ~$7000 of each GM auto, and ~$5000 for each Ford and Chrysler car go to pensions, on average. That's a hell of a lot of overhead to overcome, and you can see why that it is difficult to compete with foreign auto makers. The Japanese have their games too, like selling cars at a price point not much higher than manufacturing costs (low profit), but making their money on parts and service (all cars will need parts and service, and look at those jacked up prices for their parts!)  
 
Or did you want me to support my claim for junk cars? ;)
 
5/8/2005 6:40 PM
GregP
Aninirant,  
You go from silly to outright ridiculous.  
 
For starters, what has been reported in the Wall Street Journal, NY Times and Meet The Press is that $1,500 of each new car is for health insurance. The price of steel, as reported on Meet the Press, is $800. I agree that these benefits are expensive. We could have had a national health care program a long time ago. Instead we have the most expensive private system in the industrialized world, with the lowest life expectancy and highest infant death rate. Our health care system is a sham, pure and simple.  
 
As for the $7,000 dollar figure you are throwing out there, I would like to see this substantiated.  
 
At what point is it okay to void a contract? Who created and signed the contract?  
 
As for junk cars, they are all junk. Pick the one you like best. I know a little about the automotive market.
 
5/8/2005 7:44 PM
Anonorant
Well if $1500 is for health insurance, what about the amount for the % of income/salary payments? There are supposedly 2.5 retirees for every 1 current employee, a lot of overhead.  
 
 
It's not OK to void a contract, but if the company that is paying your health and benefits goes under (and in part to a large pension deficit), who the hell is supposed to pay for it?  
 
Yes, our health care sucks for the most part, where a lot of the money goes to insurance companies and lawsuits. $10 for a band-aid sure isn't for its quality.
 
5/8/2005 9:51 PM
GregP
So now we go from $7,000 to "There are supposedly 2.5 retirees for every 1 current employee, a lot of overhead."  
 
Try getting your facts straight before you shoot yer mouth off. The contract expires in 2007. In the meanwhile, no one was crying for these guys when they were cranking out those cash cow SUV's. Now that gas is at record highs, sales are understandably down. Is this the assembly line workers fault? GM and Ford got greedy and put all their eggs in one basket. Bad move in hindsight.  
 
"who the hell is supposed to pay for it?"  
 
The federal government gets to pick up the tab.  
 
"Yes, our health care sucks for the most part, where a lot of the money goes to insurance companies and lawsuits. $10 for a band-aid sure isn't for its quality."  
 
Insurance companies create a tremendous amount of overhead for doctors and plan administrators at small companies.  
 
5% of the doctors are responsible for over 50% of the malpractice claims. Malpractice claims account for 1% of insurance.  
 
Why doesn't the government do something about bad doctors? They certainly are after bad lawyers that clog up the system. How about the quacks out there causing real harm?  
 
$10 for a band aid is because the hospital doesn't turn away a patient because they can not pay. We all pay. No matter how much this bothers some people, we are all in this together. Health care is a crisis and our elected officials are railing on about ten justices that a slim minority don't think are worthy of a lifetime appointment.  
 
Like I said, we pay the highest cost for medical care and get the lowest return on our investment. The system isn't broken, it's devastated.
 
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