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Re: Mesa Boogie F-100 Schematic

5/11/2004 12:28 AM
bob p Re: Mesa Boogie F-100 Schematic
we commonly hear that you can just clone a mesa clean channel to get the fender clean tone because mesa preamps are essentially modified fenders.  
imho, if you want to think of a mark series clean channel as fender derived, you have to think of it as an extensively modified fender type of circuit -- so extensively modified that it doesn't even sound like a fender clean channel anymore.  
fwiw, i own a 1991 mark iv lomg head. i'm not a big fan of its clean channel. sure, if you play it in isolation it sounds great. but it you put it next to a twin reverb type of circuit, the mesa clean channel sounds very sterile. if i were building an amp, i wouldn't hesitate to build a fender clean channel, but there's no way on earth that i'd copy the clean channel out of my mark iv.  
just my two cents....  
5/11/2004 5:56 AM

Yea, thats exactly what I'm going to do on my own amp. I'm going to tweak the sound of the mesa dual rectifier orange channel and a pretty standard fender preamp. The design as it is now has half a 12AX7 unused so I'm thinking I might use that as an optional boost switch for the fender portion. Then from there, into the poweramp. Pretty straight forward. Why make it complicated.
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5/13/2004 10:39 AM

How am I making it complicated?  
I'm not going to have 2 power sections with different tube types, I ruled that out because of cost.  
But what Fender Clean would be best? As in a specific model name.  
Channel 2 + 3: Is a bit of an unknown still, I havent had the chance to try a mark IV yet.  
BUT - I am going to The UK soon (I am in Australia) and when I go, I will sus out the different amps and find what channel I want for Channel 2 and channel 3.  
The Dual Recto in store didnt really tickle my fancy much... Seemed too overdone. Too much gain, Too much everything.  
Will it be fairly easy to make a footswitch for:  
Channel One (on) Turning on will turn off other channels.  
Channel Two (on) Turning on will turn off other channels.  
Channel Three (on) Turning on will turn off other channels.  
Solo on/off (boost controlled by Solo knob at back (1db - 9db)  
FX loop on/off (Global FX loop with 10%-100% mix knob at back)
5/13/2004 6:22 PM
bob p
regarding the Mark IV:  
the yellow/clean channel is kind of sterile and seems too hot for a clean channel, overdriving too easily. i think that this is at least partly because of the direct to grid hookup on the first stage, and partly because of the resistor and bypass cap selections that deviate from traditional fender values.  
the orange/crunch channel can provide some truly righteous marshallesque tones. if i were building an amp with discrete channels, i'd be tempted to build something along the lines of the Mk IV crunch channel, along side of a separate fender clean channel.  
fwiw, most of the BF Fender clean channels are all the same. for my purposes, I'd probably copy one of those that has the mid control, like the normal channel on a BF Twin Reverb.  
have fun!  
5/13/2004 9:38 PM
Questions for Bob
Some people said to me:  
"You know its never gonna be as good as a boogie!?"  
"You know how much time its gonna take?!?!?"  
Well i say to them "F U lemme do it and then have a listen!"  
Some questions for Bob:  
What does 'BF' stand for?  
And, If i had  
channel 1: twin reverb clean  
channel 2: mesa/boogie markIV orange/crunch channel  
channel 3: mesa/boogie . . . shred channel  
Thanks for the help with my channel 1 selection, but what about channel 3? I'm pretty set on the F-100 but dont have a schematic for it.  
I'll need to go listen to some more boogies then I will get a channel 3 in.  
Only in about mid-july will this project begin construction.  
These are the sounds i want this amp to achieve (if channel 2 achieves some, then recommend a channel 3 that achieves the others) thx.  
Dream Theater : The Mirror  
Dream Theater : Another Day (mainly the solo)  
Dream Theater : Learning to Live (Oh the big solo in that - mmm that sound is wat I want from channel 3)  
Jimi Hendrix : Little wing instrumentals  
Jimi Hendrix : Angel  
Sevendust : Waffle (That massive heavy sound)  
Joe Satriani : Always with you/ Always with me  
Van Halen : Respect the wind  
I have a les paul with Duncans at the moment, but thinking of getting strat later on and a peavey  
wolfgang or ibanez jem.  
THX all in advance!
5/14/2004 12:24 AM
bob p
BF = BlackFace. (a pretty common abbreviation here). its not at all uncommon to see BFTR as an abbreviation for Black Face Twin Reverb, along with other abbreviations like BFDR, SFB, SFSR, etc.  
lots of people have thought about building clones of boogies. some of boogies, like the Mk IV, are sufficiently complicated that if you really want a boogie, its probably better to just go out and buy one. having taken them apart, i wouldn't want to build one from scratch. i value my time enough that i bought the amp.  
i prefer to listen to a boogie, eyeball the schem, and see if there's an individual feature that i'd like to incorporate into an amp i'm working on. i'd never try to reproduce a boogie clone. if it turns out that you want 3 channels with boogie tones, by all means, buy a boogie and don't try to build one.  
one thing that's important to remember is that if you decide that you want a very wide palette of tones out of a single amplifier, you end up having to make enough design compromises here and there to split the difference that the amp becomes a jack of all trades and a master of none. mesa already has that ground covered pretty well ;), so its not necessary to try to reinvent the wheel.  
sometimes you are better off with two different amps.
5/14/2004 6:05 AM

- Boogie is not an option. I am a poor musician.  
What is so difficult that an experienced electrician cant look at a BFTR and a mk4 schematic and then combine the two so there is a clean BFTR and an orange and red mk4 channel and then add a few extras that I want?  
I want 3 channels with a great clean a nice middle ground for jazz and then a full on (awesome petrucci sounding) channel.  
Boogies cost too much $ $ $ :( .  
Everyones continuing help is much appreciatied!
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