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Re: Are you sure?

3/30/2003 1:56 AM
John Fisher
Re: Are you sure?
If you study the bible "New and Old testiment" you will see that things fit together in an amazing way. Because many prophecies that were fullfilled through different ages that were thousands of years apart in such an amazing way and in such a precise order, you just know that it hasn't been manipulated and it clearly shows Jesus as the Son of God.  
I know that I may not always understand electricity but as dumb as I am, I know how to turn on the switch and it works. That's how the bible is if you turn on the switch of faith and recive it.  
John Fisher
3/30/2003 1:03 PM
Kursad K
[QUOTE]clearly shows Jesus as the Son of God.  
But what does this mean- the Son of God? Can God marry, have children and so on? If so, how many Gods are we likely to have in the near future? What is the growth rate of Gods' population? Is that monotheism?  
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3/30/2003 1:13 PM
Kursad K
If Christians had declared Jesus to be an extraordinary prophet, or the messiah, then no one would have a logical problem with it. But the idea of a Son of God together with monotheism does not mak much sense. I am sure a fix to this logical mistake has been found, but it would be better not to make the mistake to begin with.  
3/30/2003 10:15 PM

Which is more important--to know God, or to keep the doctrine of Monotheism logical and simple and absolute?  
Are you saying that God has to limit Himself to our ability to comprehend or to our predetermined notions of how He is? Are you saying that religion is more important than God Himself?  
Monotheism is just a doctrine. A man-made doctrine. If God could become human flesh, would that make Him no longer one God?  
The prophets of old had predicted that God would become incarnate; that the Messaiah would not only be a prophet, but would be His Divine Majesty in human flesh...  
Isaiah 9:6 (written approximately 714 BC) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.  
I believe there is one God. I believe that He became a man and was born as Jesus of Nazareth. I believe that each of us can receive His Spirit and know Him personally. I believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One God. Not three gods; One God. A single God, but finding His complete expression in the form of three persons: the Father (infinite, formless, eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient) the Son (showing us what God is like by becoming one of us and conquering our weakness, sin, and death by Himself) and the Spirit (communing personally with us individually by directly filling us with His spirit, His consciousness, His victory, eternal life, and His power).
3/30/2003 10:22 PM
Kursad K
"I believe there is one God. I believe that He became a man and was born as Jesus of Nazareth."
So why dont you just say, "Jesus:God himself in the form of a man", and prefer to say "Jesus:Son of God". Is that just a bad use of language or something else?  
3/31/2003 12:00 AM

I say it both ways (and so does the Bible). Because Jesus has two parts; the 'who-he-is' part and the 'what-he-is' part. Jesus's 'who' part is God. Jesus's 'what' part is human, born of a woman. Miraculously (yeah I take this part on faith) Jesus had no human biological father. He is the son of God, since God caused Mary to conceive the child Himself. And when Jesus walked the earth, even though He was God and accepted worship of Himself, He still deferred completely to God the Father. During His first 30 years, Jesus lived a relatively normal, but sinless life. Then, at 30, Jesus began His 3-year ministry that would be marked by miracles, fame, controversy, and would end in His own death and resurrection. Jesus did not choose His own will but only did what the Father told Him to do. He humbled Himself, even to the death of the cross, as our example of bringing the flesh under the control of the spirit and to become our sacrifice for sin. He never answered back when the Jews falsely accused Him or when the Roman soldiers beat Him and mocked him and spit on him and nailed him to a cross. He conquered sin and human weakness for us; something we could never do ourselves, and through His own body, paved our way to free access to God and heaven. He physically rose from the dead and now pours out His Spirit on all who believe in Him, bestowing eternal life and the power to overcome evil.  
Virgin birth? Not because sex is evil, but because God wanted to become incarnate Himself, and not just send forth another prophet to speak for Him. So Jesus wasn't a new soul created at conception, Jesus was the implantation of the Divine, Eternal Soul into Mary's ovum and womb. Sounds farfetched and religious and fairytale-ish, but then again we're talking about God. If He exists, then nothing is impossible to Him. And if He doesn't exist, then this conversation is pointless to begin with. I'm not saying 'let's make up fairytales and say God did this' just because all things are possible with God. I'm saying that I honestly believe that God did this outrageous, incredible thing, and that He apparently loves us enough to have actually died for us.
4/2/2003 5:17 PM
stephen conner

When discussing stuff like this, we ought to remember that our minds are themselves creations of God. Trying to understand the nature of God is a bit like expecting your car to change its own oil.  
In fact, it's a fair bet that nobody really understands it. Theologians and religious leaders are just particularly good at hiding this fact. Science is much better than religion because you can disagree with it and not go to Hell (wherever that is)  
Steve C.
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