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previous: Michael Tousek [QUOTE]Unlike our Commander in Chie... -- 1102043679 View Thread

Re: An away game in the Bush league

12/3/2004 12:23 AM
Re: An away game in the Bush league
"You should be bursting with praise for your president's successful outing."  
I'm not sure how to take this. Are you suggesting how I should feel about our president actually pulling off a rare public appearance without sticking his foot in his mouth? It was just a day or two before he made a joke about all the five fingered hand waving he enjoyed. That's presedential statesmenship for you.  
"Bush has had everything but the kitchen sink thrown at him over the past four years:"  
"propaganda films"  
Which one(s) would you classify proganda? You may call F9/11 whatever you want, but technically it is classified as a documentary. Can't change the rules to fit your argument.  
Do not Europeans possess the right to gather enmass and protest his unilateral foreign policy? Is it possible that more people are unhappy with bush than they were with Clinton?  
"tell-all books (featured weekly on 60 Minutes)"  
Tell all books by former insiders. I've never met Bush, yet these people have worked directly with him. And because they comprise the few that failed to fall under his charm, their perspectives are somehow biased or contaminated?  
Not sure what the 60 Minutes reference means. Perhaps suggesting they are 'liberals'?  
" and of course the standard torture-by-a-thousand cuts that our media dishes out to conservatives as a matter of habit"  
Last time I listened to the radio, I was able to find one station that had a liberal democrat perspective. The repubs have had Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity, and all the other wanna be's for years. Less than 10% of the population reads their news. Most people get their news via radio and TV, which are demonstrably conservative. And wasn't it the New York Times that broke MonicaGate? And rode Clinton. Every day there was a salacious headline.  
"The impeachment not withstanding, President Bush has endured at least as much as President Clinton."  
Not true. How many special council's have been appointed to investigate Bush? The 9/11 commitee couldn't interview just Bush, Cheney had to be there also. Ken Star cost at least $70 million tax pay dollars. What were all the things Clinton was found guilty of by the way? What did that $70 million dollars buy? A conviction?  
"I can only imagine how bad it would have been if Bush had possessed the sort of deficiencies that rightly earned Clinton a trip through the ringer."  
Don't confuse resolute with competency or character. Bush is the closest thing to American royalty as one can get. With senators, congressmen, CIA chiefs, governors, vice-presidents, presidents in the family tree, Bush has access to the most powerful people in America. The opportunities his social rank afford him also call into question his motives. He may parade around as an everyday man, but his history tells a contradictory story.  
America is moving towards a pro-business stance, abandoning the pro-worker stance. Government has become increasingly sympathetic to corporate interests. How else would one explain the relaxing of environmental laws, employment laws (over-time pay)? Had Bush been a working man, or even a sucessful business man, or gone to Vietnam, he might choose to govern in a fashion that more closely reflects that average American.  
"If by "discouraged" you mean that when a liberal voices an opinion there might be someone around to disagree with it, then I would say to you that that's just a natural part of sharing a nation with people who think thoughts that are different than your own."  
Countless accounts in the papers about Kerry supporters being escorted from Bush's hand picked campaign gatherings. Kerry did not screen, pre-qualify or remove Bush supporters. One lady asked Laura Bush why her son had to die at a campaign stop, and this lady was escorted out. Why are dissenting opinions or questions silenced by this administration? If the lack of moral and ethical behavior of the 1990's was some how attributed to Clinton's deficiencies, then the closed minded, intolerance of dissenting opinion and secrective governement is the consequences of the Bush presidency. He is the commander in chief, and therefore sets a national tone, just as Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Nixon.. did.  
"But rather than feeling tricked by the Republicans' use of values language, the Democrats should match it or come up with an alternative."  
What 'values' do repubs have that dems do not possess? What values do conservative possess that set them apart from liberals? I find the use of word 'values' interesting. Everyone uses this word in a context so vague as to resonate within ones sub-conscious mind, much like a rorshacke ink blot. Values can mean whatever one wants it to mean. But when a specific definition is applied, by virtue of owning the word value, repubs are able to claim that they are the party of apple pie, chevrolet and mom.  
"And again I wonder who it is exactly that's doing this begrudging labelling you speak of?"  
Frank Luntz.  
"Just whose boot do you imagine is on your neck, keeping you from saying what you want to say?"  
The shadowy people that think they want to know what books I've checked out from the library. If I check out a book about guns, or some anti-establishment book (The anarchists cookbook for example), I probably would think twice about checking them out. This fact alone, that I may accidentally, or marginally fall into a profile that would trigger a secret investigation into my activities is unamerican. I don't read about guns and I don't care all that much about the anarchists cook book, but what if I was just curious and wanted to examine these books in the leisurely confines of my home? I guess as long as one is a conformist or feels moral, they would have nothing to worry about.  
"I'm reminded a little of Sean Penn taking out that full page vanity editorial in the LA Times to complain that voices like his were being quashed."  
A subtle attempt at working the elite liberal angle. The actors may be liberal, yet the hollywood studio's that are owned by the mega-corporations are not. They only produce what they think will sell.  
"Or are you just upset that lots of people disagree with you?"  
Well, Bush seems to think he has a overwhelming mandate. He doesn't. He won by roughly 3 million votes. Hardly a landslide. Let us not forget that there exists an almost equal number of people that voted against Bush. And of those that voted for Bush, not all of them agree 100% with his domestic or world views. He won the election. Lets not go overboard with intimations of sweeping public mandates. The country is fairly evenly divided, and I suspect that rifts within the repub party will soon see the light of day.  
"A hair dramatic, but maybe you really feel this way"  
Yes, I do.  
"Another thing you liberals might want to work on is not holding your fellow citizens in such low regard"  
Again, see my remarks about the Rush's, Hannity's and O'Rielly's. They have been villanizing and demonizing liberal for years, using lies, distortions and half-truths to support their arguments. Here is a real simple test: If the radio host is yelling, screaming and being downright mean spirited, chances are they are not telling you the truth. If you listen to Rush and Co. and come away being angry at liberals, then they have done their job. When I hear conservative talk radio or TV, conservative is not what I would classify their schtick as. I hear ranting lunatics that pass as surrogate spokespersons of the republican party. I'm sure Ed Gillispie or Karl Rove would reel in any runaway radio pundit where one to regain their dignity.  
"See my above two comments, and please pardon me while I barf."  
You call what we are doing in Iraq humanitarian? What about Darfur? What about North Korea? There are millions of people sying of starvation in North Korea. What about AID's? Please spare me the sanctimonious, gratiutous indignation.  
You don't call your above remark dismissive? Your exagerated response reveals the lack of objectivity you clearly possess, regardless of how high a regard you hold yourself or those who post opinions that you find yourself aligned. Despite your best efforts, in the end your opinion is yours, and mine is mine. Yet I did not attack you. You obviously took exception with many things I posted, and yet failed to post any meaningful or objective response. You have influenced me as much as I you. Its a tie.  
And we both lack civility.

Darin Hey guys,We better ... -- 12/3/2004 11:10 AM
Michael Tousek [QUOTE]I'm not sure how to take thi... -- 12/3/2004 3:36 PM