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previous: Magamps I'll look at this in the morning at... -- 11/17/2003 2:12 AM	View Thread

Re: Anybody tried winding wah inductors?

11/17/2003 4:47 PM
Bradster	Re: Anybody tried winding wah inductors? And how does one wind "Torroid" inductors? Anyway, this thread touches on an area I have some experience in, so I would like to contribute the following for those who wish to wind inductors for the classic Vox and Cry Baby Wah's, please forgive the lengthy verbiage. Format-------- Year/Model/Type, Inductor, Core Size Inductance (mH) DC resistance (ohms) ---------------- 1967 Vox halo -small centre hole P18/11 ~500 83.3 1967 Vox halo - large centre hole P18/11 ~520 31.0 1968/9 Vox (Italy) "stack of dimes" P14/8 ~550 56.0 1960's Vox "filmcan" P18/11 ? ~510 15.0 1970's Fasel P14/8 ~520 42.0 1970's Jen P18/11 ? ~623 17.2 1970's Thomas (U.S.) "stack of dimes" P14/8 ~573 44.5 1989 Dunlop Crybaby P18/11 ~515 18.0 1993 Vox V847 ("N30") P14/8 ~608 18.0 1999 Dunlop 535Q P14/8 ? ~580 18.0 1999 Dunlop Crybaby GCB95 P14/8 ? ~680 58.0 It is reported that the early "Clyde McCoy" inductor is the only one that is nearly dead-on the nominal 500mH, while "Fasels" are reported to be "all over the place" ranging from 480mH to 640mH (but 500-540mH is the norm), the "Halo" inductors are reportedly the most consistent. Note that I did not personally measure most of these values as I only have the TDK and Fasel types at hand, and cannot confirm the core types, but the above info is mostly compiled from internet sources and newsgroups where they dwell in all things effects (guitar effects, schematics and technology) I do have (personally verified) schematics, drawn by me from the original circuit boards, for the Vox v847, Thomas Organ Cry Baby, Dunlop Cry Baby, and Dunlop JH-1 '96 and '02, I don't have a website but if someone wants to post them where board members can access them I will e-mail them to you. WARNING to those considering buying the new Dunlop "Classic" GCB-95F "Fasel" thinking they are getting a repro of the old original pedals, I must say that this new model (GCB95F) Cry Baby IS NOT CLASSIC in the sense of the word most of us would use. Although is pedal sounds quite similar and looks classic from the outside, there is in fact nothing resembling the classic INSIDE this unit. The new classic is manufactured using surface-mount technology (like your computer's motherboard and Video card) using SMT components (not that it's a bad thing, it's just not "classic") the new unit also has 2 IC chips (there were NO integrated circuits on the original) used for input and output buffering, and has even more components added for on-board power supply filter/regulation. (I have an original Thomas Organ Cry Baby for reference, and can verify this). Concerning the Red (somtimes called Brown) "Fasel" inductor, it is/was a "Torroid" core originally used by the Italian Mfr "Jen" when they built the units for Vox for sale in the UK/Europe, but in the U.S. Vox's affiliate Thomas Organ Co. re-named the pedal the "Cry Baby" for the U.S. market and with the exception of a very few early units the majority of the U.S. Cry Baby units used the TDK-5103 (Japan) inductor. Dunlop Mfg now sells a reproduction "Fasel" inductor, in fact Dunlop does this a lot, they make a Fuzz Face reproduction and are having transistors manufactured and re-labeled with the markings "NKT275" because the original Mfr, Newark Technolgies Ltd England stopped producing these like 20 years ago. Concerning the TDK5103 inductor, some say the TDK isn't as good sounding as the Fasel and being the kind of person who likes to cut through the BS and the Hype, I just had to investigate this (ok call me Curious George) so I recently did a "Pepsi Challenge" style test with the help of the manager of a "Guitar Center" store near me, where we compared my original Thomas Organ (w/TDK5103) Cry Baby with: Dunlop "Classic GCB-95F" (Fasel) Dunlop "GCB95" (Std Inductor) Dunlop "JH-1" (Std Inductor) Vox "v847" (Std Inductor) and we (all who were there) are in total agreement that the original with it's TDK5103 sounded equally good (some said better) than the "Classic" with it's reproduction "Fasel" inductor. I took them all home, opened them all up, removed the circuit boards, and check part-values and circuit traces against the schematics for verification, then scanned the circuit boards into my computer for future reference. Interestingly the curent production Vox v847 is EXACTLY the same curcuit as the original 1970 Thomas Organ Cry Baby that I own. So if you want a "classic" buy the Vox v847. (plus it has the neat chrome pedal) There is also a "Yellow Fasel" inductor which is a cup shaped inductor with normal center core. Interestingly the Red "Torroid" core inductor when you put a signal trough it and watch it on an ocilloscope, tends to distort the signal (not clipping distortion, just altering the signal slightly) which may contribute to the "mojo" that has evolved around using the "Fasel" inductor. The "standard" inductor used in the Dunlop offerings is the exact same part as the inductor used in the Vox units, obviously they source3 from the same supplier, and speaking of same-sourcing, ALL these pedals used the same aluminum rocker pedal housing, How do I know? well there was the exact same casting numbers inside on the roof of the housing on each pedal regardless of brand, I'd like to know where they are getting these as I would like to produce small quantities of custom pedals myself. -Brad

11/17/2003 4:47 PM

Bradster

Re: Anybody tried winding wah inductors?

And how does one wind "Torroid" inductors?

Anyway, this thread touches on an area I have some experience in, so I would like to contribute the following for those who wish to wind inductors for the classic Vox and Cry Baby Wah's, please forgive the lengthy verbiage.

Format--------
Year/Model/Type,
Inductor,
Core Size
Inductance (mH)
DC resistance (ohms)
----------------

1967 Vox halo -small centre hole
P18/11
~500
83.3

1967 Vox halo - large centre hole
P18/11
~520
31.0

1968/9 Vox (Italy) "stack of dimes"
P14/8
~550
56.0

1960's Vox "filmcan"
P18/11 ?
~510
15.0

1970's Fasel
P14/8
~520
42.0

1970's Jen
P18/11 ?
~623
17.2

1970's Thomas (U.S.) "stack of dimes"
P14/8
~573
44.5

1989 Dunlop Crybaby
P18/11
~515
18.0

1993 Vox V847 ("N30")
P14/8
~608
18.0

1999 Dunlop 535Q
P14/8 ?
~580
18.0

1999 Dunlop Crybaby GCB95
P14/8 ?
~680
58.0

It is reported that the early "Clyde McCoy" inductor is the only one that is nearly dead-on the nominal 500mH, while "Fasels" are reported to be "all over the place" ranging from 480mH to 640mH (but 500-540mH is the norm), the "Halo" inductors are reportedly the most consistent.

Note that I did not personally measure most of these values as I only have the TDK and Fasel types at hand, and cannot confirm the core types, but the above info is mostly compiled from internet sources and newsgroups where they dwell in all things effects (guitar effects, schematics and technology)

I do have (personally verified) schematics, drawn by me from the original circuit boards, for the Vox v847, Thomas Organ Cry Baby, Dunlop Cry Baby, and Dunlop JH-1 '96 and '02, I don't have a website but if someone wants to post them where board members can access them I will e-mail them to you.

WARNING to those considering buying the new Dunlop "Classic" GCB-95F "Fasel" thinking they are getting a repro of the old original pedals, I must say that this new model (GCB95F) Cry Baby IS NOT CLASSIC in the sense of the word most of us would use. Although is pedal sounds quite similar and looks classic from the outside, there is in fact nothing resembling the classic INSIDE this unit. The new classic is manufactured using surface-mount technology (like your computer's motherboard and Video card) using SMT components (not that it's a bad thing, it's just not "classic") the new unit also has 2 IC chips (there were NO integrated circuits on the original) used for input and output buffering, and has even more components added for on-board power supply filter/regulation.
(I have an original Thomas Organ Cry Baby for reference, and can verify this).

Concerning the Red (somtimes called Brown) "Fasel" inductor, it is/was a "Torroid" core originally used by the Italian Mfr "Jen" when they built the units for Vox for sale in the UK/Europe, but in the U.S. Vox's affiliate Thomas Organ Co. re-named the pedal the "Cry Baby" for the U.S. market and with the exception of a very few early units the majority of the U.S. Cry Baby units used the TDK-5103 (Japan) inductor. Dunlop Mfg now sells a reproduction "Fasel" inductor, in fact Dunlop does this a lot, they make a Fuzz Face reproduction and are having transistors manufactured and re-labeled with the markings "NKT275" because the original Mfr, Newark Technolgies Ltd England stopped producing these like 20 years ago.

Concerning the TDK5103 inductor, some say the TDK isn't as good sounding as the Fasel and being the kind of person who likes to cut through the BS and the Hype, I just had to investigate this (ok call me Curious George) so I recently did a "Pepsi Challenge" style test with the help of the manager of a "Guitar Center" store near me, where we compared my original Thomas Organ (w/TDK5103) Cry Baby with:

Dunlop "Classic GCB-95F" (Fasel)
Dunlop "GCB95" (Std Inductor)
Dunlop "JH-1" (Std Inductor)
Vox "v847" (Std Inductor)

and we (all who were there) are in total agreement that the original with it's TDK5103 sounded equally good (some said better) than the "Classic" with it's reproduction "Fasel" inductor.

I took them all home, opened them all up, removed the circuit boards, and check part-values and circuit traces against the schematics for verification, then scanned the circuit boards into my computer for future reference.

Interestingly the curent production Vox v847 is EXACTLY the same curcuit as the original 1970 Thomas Organ Cry Baby that I own. So if you want a "classic" buy the Vox v847.
(plus it has the neat chrome pedal)

There is also a "Yellow Fasel" inductor which is a cup shaped inductor with normal center core. Interestingly the Red "Torroid" core inductor when you put a signal trough it and watch it on an ocilloscope, tends to distort the signal (not clipping distortion, just altering the signal slightly) which may contribute to the "mojo" that has evolved around using the "Fasel" inductor.

The "standard" inductor used in the Dunlop offerings is the exact same part as the inductor used in the Vox units, obviously they source3 from the same supplier, and speaking of same-sourcing, ALL these pedals used the same aluminum rocker pedal housing, How do I know? well there was the exact same casting numbers inside on the roof of the housing on each pedal regardless of brand, I'd like to know where they are getting these as I would like to produce small quantities of custom pedals myself.

-Brad

Replies:

Magamps One winds toroids with a toroid win... -- 11/18/2003 1:37 AM