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Re: Warning Scotch 235 black paper tape DON'T USE


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5/22/2006 4:43 PM
Zhangliqun
Re: Warning Scotch 235 black paper tape DON'T USE
"Women still often make less then men doing the same job.  
 
Remember the ERA? (Equal Rights Amendment).  
 
Back in the 50's... forget about it!"  
 
It has traditionally the man who has been the go-getter who spends 60 or 80 hours a week at work with a wife at home to take care of the kids. Women who have worked and do work, generally not the case. They still call-in and stay home when the kids are sick or some other situation with family. Not much has changed on both points. And that makes all the difference in pay and advancement.  
 
But if you control for these factors and compare single men and single women in jobs where ambition and late hours, etc., are key, the pay gap is within the margin of error to be dead even.
 
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5/22/2006 11:34 PM
Steve A.

Z. said:  
 
It has traditionally the man who has been the go-getter who spends 60 or 80 hours a week at work with a wife at home to take care of the kids. Women who have worked and do work, generally not the case. They still call-in and stay home when the kids are sick or some other situation with family. Not much has changed on both points. And that makes all the difference in pay and advancement.  
 
    "Not much has changed on both points." I beg to differ but this is the 21st century and married couples often take turns staying home with the sick kids, and anyone seriously committed to their family says no to 60 to 80 hour weeks, whether they are male or female.  
 
    Although some executives are women, most of them are men, and for the same positions, women usually make about 80% of what men do. (No footnotes to cite, but its something that I keep reading, year after year.)  
 
    Things are changing slowly but surely, and maybe by the time we elect a woman president the job situations will have evened out.  
 
    Some companies have equal pay for men and women, but I believe that they are the exception and not the rule.  
 
    Peace out  
 
Steve Ahola  
 
P.S. Do you work for the Grubb Ellis real estate company? Just wondering after looking at your email address...
 
5/23/2006 10:16 AM
Zhangliqun

Although some executives are women, most of them are men, and for the same positions, women usually make about 80% of what men do.  
 
And again, if you look more closely, something the people who write what you keep reading year after year keep sweeping under the rug will become apparent: Controlling for all other factors as mentioned before, the pay is pretty much dead even. The average woman executive who is getting less than his male counterpart just isn't putting in as many hours because her career isn't her Number #1 priority as it is for her male counterpart, and there's nothing wrong with that. Most of these women are married and directly caring for their families is their Number #1 priority -- and thank God that it is.  
 
All the years I've been working, I've never seen a woman get less money if she showed up every day, did good work and showed as much initiative as the men. But throughout all these same years, the women in the offices or at the plants where I've worked on average have always had a much higher rate of absence than the men. However legit the reason for being out (and often it wasn't so legit), is an employer supposed to reward that and ignore and thereby effectively punish the man (or woman) who is there every day?  
 
I beg to differ but this is the 21st century and married couples often take turns staying home with the sick kids, and anyone seriously committed to their family says no to 60 to 80 hour weeks, whether they are male or female.  
 
It's true that anyone, male or female, seriously committed to direct participation in family life has to put some kind of limit on the hours he or she spends at work -- and it's true that it will cost them in terms of raises and promotions. And again thank God for those who do say no to 15-hour days.  
 
But 21st century or not, the vast majority of the time it's the mom who stays home with the sick kid while the dad shows his commitment to the family by working those extra hours to bring home the extra bacon so the family can have everything they need. Whether he's staying TOO long at the office at the expense of his family is another discussion for another time, but let's just say it's definitely an occupational hazard. But the point is that for better or worse, it's in men's nature to show their love for their families in that way -- to be a great provider. Women tend to show it by being a great care-giver.  
 
But the bottom line in terms of pay is that anyone, male or female, who says no to those long hours just isn't going to get raises that are as big or promotions that are as high or as often as the ones who say yes. It's not a conspiracy, it's just the way life is. Would you give raises and promotions to someone who wasn't there every day over someone who was? Everything in life is a trade-off, and all the screeching and footstomping by NOW about how conspiratorial and evil men are won't change this fact or human nature. You might as well argue with the weather or the tides.
 

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