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Schatten Design Pickup Winders

4/23/2006 12:26 PM
Steve A.	Schatten Design Pickup Winders Don Mare has been recommending this winder and it looks pretty sharp for $350: http://www.schattendesign.com/winder.htm http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=SERVE&sku=I-1465&item=freeinfo/print.html I use my dining room table for my workbench so something like this would fit into my "workshop". Stew-Mac shows an even simpler winder that uses a cordless drill: http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=SERVE&sku=I-5967&item=freeinfo/print.html And here is the picture of the original Fender winding machine that Don posted: http://www.blueguitar.org/new/pix/fender_pickup_winder.jpg The Schatten Design winder looks simple enough and I think that something like it could be built for a lot less than $350. Variable speed is a must, as is the ability to wire clockwise and counterclockwise. The digital counter would be nice, too. I do think that the feeder could be upgraded to something that would work automatically. Any thoughts and suggestions on this would be appreciated... Thanks! Steve Ahola

4/23/2006 12:26 PM

Steve A.

Schatten Design Pickup Winders

    Don Mare has been recommending this winder and it looks pretty sharp for $350:

http://www.schattendesign.com/winder.htm

http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=SERVE&sku=I-1465&item=freeinfo/print.html

    I use my dining room table for my workbench so something like this would fit into my "workshop". Stew-Mac shows an even simpler winder that uses a cordless drill:

http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=SERVE&sku=I-5967&item=freeinfo/print.html

    And here is the picture of the original Fender winding machine that Don posted:

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/pix/fender_pickup_winder.jpg

    The Schatten Design winder looks simple enough and I think that something like it could be built for a lot less than $350. Variable speed is a must, as is the ability to wire clockwise and counterclockwise. The digital counter would be nice, too. I do think that the feeder could be upgraded to something that would work automatically.

    Any thoughts and suggestions on this would be appreciated... Thanks!

Steve Ahola

4/23/2006 2:36 PM
D. Mare	the shatten design winder, i think is way too slow, after just a few weeks with it--i'm looking into replacing it. the motor is really tiny the counter is impossible to see while you wind. it's tricky tring to center pups on, i wish could screw the pup down into the center of the plate, but the shaft is too skinny to drill and tap [ gun drill ] i have a nice sewing machine motor and a vari-speed foot control thats attached, all i need is berrings and shafts and some pullys and i'm switching over. the shatten, is like a pair of training wheels... you'll want the training wheels off soon enough

4/23/2006 2:36 PM

D. Mare

the shatten design winder, i think is way too slow, after just a few weeks with it--i'm looking into replacing it.

the motor is really tiny

the counter is impossible to see while you wind.

it's tricky tring to center pups on,

i wish could screw the pup down into the center of the plate, but the shaft is too skinny to drill and tap [ gun drill ]

i have a nice sewing machine motor and a vari-speed foot control thats attached,

all i need is berrings and shafts and some pullys and i'm switching over.

the shatten, is like a pair of training wheels... you'll want the training wheels off soon enough

4/23/2006 3:33 PM

Joe Gwinn

On 4/23/2006 8:36 PM, D. Mare said:

quote:
"the motor is really tiny"

But it's more than big enough, at 1/15th of a horsepower. The photo is deceptive. One only needs a hundredth of a horsepower or so.

For the record, my scatten-style winder is powered by an even smaller motor,

quote:
"the counter is impossible to see while you wind."

And impossible to buy, unless you luck out in the surplus word. The Red Lion CUB3 electronic counter is what people are using.

[QUOTE]it's tricky trying to center pups on,

i wish could screw the pup down into the center of the plate, but the shaft is too skinny to drill and tap [ gun drill ][/QUOTE]It's also too hard. What I did was to get a piece of aluminum 3" by 1.25" by 5/16" thick, and drill a 0.250" hole in the center perpenducular to the 3" by 1.25" face, using a drill press (cannot be done accurately enough by hand). Then, a hole perpendicular to the 0.250" hole is drilled with a #33 bit, and tapped for a 6-32 screw. This assembly then clamps firmly onto the 0.250" bobbin shaft, and one attaches the bobbin to this plate. I use small (2-56) screws that pass through the bobbin into threaded holes in the plate.

Hardware stores may carry suitable extruded aluminum bars. Also, local industrial dealers in non-ferrous metals usually sell cut-offs by the pound fairly cheaply.

quote:
"i have a nice sewing machine motor and a vari-speed foot control that's attached,"

I just found a sewing-machine motor with varieble-speed foot control at the local dump. It's 1/15th horsepower too, and would certainly work. I would guess that all sewing machine motors are about equal in power.

quote:
"all i need is bearings and shafts and some pulleys and i'm switching over."

I get most of such mechanical parts from SDP/SI (http://www.sdp-si.com).

While one can get OK drill bits in local hardware stores (cobalt is best, high-speed steel, is pretty good, but carbon steel is hopeless), the taps and threading dies available in hardware stores are hopeless, and must be bought by mail order from industrial equipment dealers, like MSC (http://www.msc-direct.com). For taps, buy only US-made. A tap wrench is also needed; it's almost impossible to turn a tap using an ordinary adjustable wrench without breaking the tap and/pr mangling the hole one is tapping.

The drill press is essential, as is clamping the piece being drilled to the drill press table with at least two clamps. Use a pilot drill, say 1/8", followed by the 1/4" drill, and lubricate the drilling and tapping operations with kerosene or denatured alcohol, to keep the aluminium from welding to the drill bit.

4/23/2006 2:38 PM
Ken	$350 is too steep for me... that can buy a lot of 42gauge wire. I love the show Junkyard Wars on TV, so I can see where the 'Designed2Wind' guy is coming from. I think I'd like to try making one from 'available parts' sometime, just so I can put it on top of the TV when I'm done with it and tell people it's 'performance art'. Seriously. I like 'Fender's winder', I wish I could get a closeup of how the bobbin was held onto the winder. Ken

4/23/2006 2:38 PM

Ken

$350 is too steep for me... that can buy a lot of 42gauge wire.

I love the show Junkyard Wars on TV, so I can see where the 'Designed2Wind' guy is coming from. I
think I'd like to try making one from 'available parts' sometime, just so I can put it on top of the
TV when I'm done with it and tell people it's 'performance art'. Seriously.

I like 'Fender's winder', I wish I could get a closeup of how the bobbin was held onto the winder.

Ken

4/23/2006 7:02 PM
D. Mare	hi ken, i figured the shaft is gun drilled and threaded on that fender winder, and the pups of that time period all had center holes in the bobbins, and they just screwed them on, at Lace we had a similar system, a tiny threaded head (no Plate)

4/23/2006 8:06 PM
Ken	Hello... I was looking at the photo of 'Leo's winder', and I remembered a part in Forrest White's book about how the winder feeders 'slipped the empty bobbin's mounting screw holes onto two holding pins on the winder' to hold them while winding. Hmmm... I didn't see any of that on the photo. Guess I'm doing too much 'research'. The center mounting hole and latheplate does seem to be the most efficient way to hold it all together, especially when you're dealing with different pickup shapes. How do you keep the pickup bobbin from rocking back and forth if you don't have a latheplate? Did you just turn the bobbin onto the winder like a corkscrew into a wine cork? I remember trying to wind my first pickup on a cordless drill in a vise, I doublesticktaped the bobbin to one of those rubber sanding disk holders that chuck into your drill. Halfway through winding, the bobbin came off and hit me right in the forehead. Ken

4/23/2006 8:06 PM

Ken

Hello...

I was looking at the photo of 'Leo's winder',
and I remembered a part in Forrest White's book
about how the winder feeders 'slipped the empty bobbin's mounting screw holes onto two holding pins on the winder' to hold them while winding. Hmmm... I didn't see any of that on the photo. Guess I'm doing too much 'research'.

The center mounting hole and latheplate does seem to be the most efficient way to hold it all together, especially when you're dealing with different pickup shapes.

How do you keep the pickup bobbin from rocking back and forth if you don't have a latheplate? Did you just turn the bobbin onto the winder like a corkscrew into a wine cork?

I remember trying to wind my first pickup on a cordless drill in a vise, I doublesticktaped the bobbin to one of those rubber sanding disk holders that chuck into your drill. Halfway through winding, the bobbin came off and hit me right in the forehead.

Ken

4/23/2006 2:57 PM
Joe Gwinn	I built (well, am building) my own variant of the Schatten winder. My design is a bit more complex than strictly necessary, as I'm using it as a research vehicle as well. Still, it isn't hard. One can also do it simpler: The motor shown in the picture of Leo's winder is still available, costing $45 new from Grainger: Dayton Model 2M066. A sewing-machine motor will also work. To this add some shafts, bearings, belts and pulleys from SDP/SI, and a way to activate the reed switch that drives the CUB3 electronic counter. The motor turns about five times faster than is customary for bobbin winding, so a ~5:1 speed reduction is in order. This means that the diameter of the pulley on the bobbin shaft must be about five times the diameter of the pulley on the motor shaft. As for shaft bearings, use the flange-mounted self-adjusting kind, that will tolerate +/- 5 degrees of angular misalignment, or it may prove difficult to build the unit out of wood using only hand tools. Make sure that it's possible to adjust the spacing between motor shaft axis and bobbin shaft axis, to take up variations in belts and pulleys. Drive the motor with a small variac or a Lutron dimmer, with a 400-volt 10-amp (or better) full-wave rectifier bridge between dimmer/variac and motor, for best speed control. AC side goes to the dimmer/variac, and the DC side goes to the motor.

4/23/2006 2:57 PM

Joe Gwinn

I built (well, am building) my own variant of the Schatten winder. My design is a bit more complex than strictly necessary, as I'm using it as a research vehicle as well. Still, it isn't hard.

One can also do it simpler:

The motor shown in the picture of Leo's winder is still available, costing $45 new from Grainger: Dayton Model 2M066. A sewing-machine motor will also work.

To this add some shafts, bearings, belts and pulleys from SDP/SI, and a way to activate the reed switch that drives the CUB3 electronic counter.

The motor turns about five times faster than is customary for bobbin winding, so a ~5:1 speed reduction is in order. This means that the diameter of the pulley on the bobbin shaft must be about five times the diameter of the pulley on the motor shaft.

As for shaft bearings, use the flange-mounted self-adjusting kind, that will tolerate +/- 5 degrees of angular misalignment, or it may prove difficult to build the unit out of wood using only hand tools.

Make sure that it's possible to adjust the spacing between motor shaft axis and bobbin shaft axis, to take up variations in belts and pulleys.

Drive the motor with a small variac or a Lutron dimmer, with a 400-volt 10-amp (or better) full-wave rectifier bridge between dimmer/variac and motor, for best speed control. AC side goes to the dimmer/variac, and the DC side goes to the motor.

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