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Re: Hotter wind on screw coil


 
4/3/2006 6:37 PM
Mickey Boy Re: Hotter wind on screw coil
Which is gettin sorta hard to find on here....
 
4/3/2006 6:40 PM
Mickey Boy
C'mon guys , I really don't want to start having to talk to my wife for something to do...
 
4/3/2006 6:50 PM
Zhangliqun

I wind the slug hotter on the bridge pu and the screw coil hotter on the neck pu. In both cases I'm winding the coil hotter that's further from the bridge to make the most of the natural oomph you can get out of a guitar at a lower number of turns. It's very effective on a +/-8.5k bridge pickup in avoiding hollow mids and ice-pick treble.  
 
The slug coil is already naturally beefier even without that, though, because the screws in the other bobbin extend well below the baseplate, taking some of the magnetic field with it. The slugs stop at the baseplate, making the magnetic field more concentrated on that side.  
 
You can have both sides pretty concentrated by cutting about 1/4" off the pole pieces. (Even 1/16" makes a difference to my ears.)
 
4/3/2006 9:13 PM
Mickey Boy
But if they were both wound the same the slug coil would be hotter to start with , so is there a need to wind it hotter ?keeping in mind the need maybe to get the "edge " from mismatched coils , trying to find out if this was gibsons thinking when they first started with the PAF's? , I suppose some serious testing is called for, has anybody gone any further into it yet , maybe putting the coils separately into a guitar? that would bring in lots of other things into the equation , and not sure if a bucker would even work like this?
 
4/4/2006 10:09 AM
Zhangliqun

"But if they were both wound the same the slug coil would be hotter to start with , so is there a need to wind it hotter?"  
 
***FOR a certain sound, yes. To my ear, a vintage range bridge bucker tends to be a little thin sounding and in need of a little extra grunt in the mids. Winding the slug coil hotter seems to fix this.  
 
"Keeping in mind the need maybe to get the "edge " from mismatched coils , trying to find out if this was gibsons thinking when they first started with the PAF's?"  
 
***GIBSON wasn't trying to do anything but make a hum-cancelling pickup. Beyond that, they (and all electric guitar/pickup makers) were trying to just get the wire on the bobbin as best they could.  
 
"I suppose some serious testing is called for, has anybody gone any further into it yet , maybe putting the coils separately into a guitar? that would bring in lots of other things into the equation , and not sure if a bucker would even work like this?"  
 
***WHAT do you mean by 'separately'?
 
4/4/2006 11:50 AM
David Schwab

quote:
"is it possible that the slugs , being fatter than the screws transfer more of the magnetic field so the screw coil was wound hotter to compensate for this? I did a test where I checked the gauss of a magnet through both the screw and through a slug , from memory there was around 15% difference in strength , the slug being the stronger of the two , anyone else got any thoughts on this?"
 
 
I would think the slugs also load the coil more, as far as inductance is concerned. While that is in line with stronger magnetic field from the slugs, it's the way they affect the coil's inductance that matters more.  
 
This is why strat style pickup with alnico rods sound different than steel rods with a magnet under them. The inductance is higher. If you then replaced the alnico/steel rods for ceramic magnet rods (assuming you could get them in that size/shape) you would have yet another tone from the same coil.  
 
A question to those that wind "mismatched" coils; how much of the humbucking effect is lost, and how far do you mismatch the coils?
 
4/4/2006 11:59 AM
David Schwab

quote:
"Also, whether the slug coil is covered or not should be included in the formula."
 
 
Well just having the cover changes the tone. The magnetic field induces a random flow of eddy currents in the metal cover, which are electrical currents that each have their own magnetic flux, which opposes the flux linkage from the main magnet/coil, and cancels out some high frequencies. The cover also changes the magnetic pattern.  
 
This is why a non ferrous cover can affect the tone. The base plate probably adds to the tone also.  
 
I think Gibson's original idea was that the covered slug coil was only for hum cancelation and wouldn't add to the tone... otherwise they would have exposed both sets of poles.  
 
In comparison, Ray Butts' filtertron pickups had both coils exposed.
 
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