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Tension vs. wax-potting

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3/21/2006 11:00 AM

Tension vs. wax-potting

As a fledgling winder, I've been able to get really good sounds almost right out of the gate but my main problem so far has been feedback.

If I understand correctly, there seems to be two schools of thought in the winding community about the best way to suppress feedback. One is obviously wax-potting, and the other is represented if memory serves by Tim Lollar (correct me if I'm wrong on this Mr. Lollar), who says that you don't need to wax-pot if you wind it with the right amount of tension.

My early models as said sound really good, but for some of my high gain customers, the coils were just too loose and squealed pretty badly. So I remembered Lollar's (or whoever's) comment and decided to increase the tension on the wind. (Apparently I have a little too much tension now because the bobbins start to bend slightly -- but that's another story.)

Anyway, my super high-tech feedback tester is just me diming the gain on a Maxon overdrive stompbox, lifting its level dial moderately above bypass mode, then cranking my 60-watt Fender Hotrod all the way up to 12 (Mr. Tufnel, if you're out there, my amp goes to 12, so there), and then I cram the pickup right up against the speaker.

Bottom line -- the increased tension helps a lot, even with my ball-of-yarn scatterwound pickups. I can get it to squeal if I get within 2 feet of the speaker and even then I have to coax it just a little. For comparison, my early models start squealing uncontrollably at 6, never mind 12.

My questions:

1) I need to have less tension so the bobbin doesn't warp. Will I still get the same results a bit less tension? Either way, I still would like it to not feedback at all, even under my fairly extreme test conditions, so...

2) Does wax-potting actually/significantly dampen the tone? I've heard this is the case from some and for that reason I've been doing everything I can to avoid it. Somebody please tell me that wax-potting ISN'T a tone-killer...

3/21/2006 12:45 PM
Mystic	Here are some things to try 1. put some wax shavings under the cover, clamp tightly and heat with a heatgun before soldering 2. put some beeswax or stick glue between the magnet and the baseplate 3. wax or varnish the outside of the coils 4. for ultra high gain settings varnish the coils as you wind (messy)

3/21/2006 2:59 PM

Thanks -- none of my high-gainers want covers so far. But I figured some tape or that thin sheet packing stuff would help in the case of covers without the mess or heat?

Wax or glue between magnet and baseplate does sound like it would help some, at least stop some of the transfer of vibrations from the ringing baseplate to the coils -- it sure couldn't hurt. Maybe if the screw side spacer was also wood instead of metal, but some wax in there might help too.

I came up with a great idea for feedback suppression that works perfectly -- two or three little squares (about 1/4" square) of the paper coil tape put on the coil wire in the center lengthwise (where it would vibrate the most) at various stages of the winding process. The problem is (sigh), that it also works great for suppressing tone and output. I can even hear the loss of highs with just one little square in there. That can actually be desirable for the neck position sometimes, but for the bridge where the main problem is? Fuhget about it!

The reason I bring that up is I wonder if wax-potting or your varnish-while-winding application would have the same tone-dampening effect.

Thanks for the reply -- you've jumpstarted my thinking, especially that wax between baseplate and magnet thing.

3/21/2006 5:54 PM
Mystic	Dosen't High gain = no tone? for high gain, soak your coils in sanding sealer.

3/21/2006 6:10 PM

I'm with you on the supersoak -- past a certain point it doesn't matter to my ear what pickup you're using. It's like throwing a gallon of water into a Yosemite forest fire vs. a pint. Not gonna make a lot of difference.

But I've got one guy in particular who just loves to death this 10.5k I made for him and says he really can hear a big difference between it and the typical 14k+ A5/ceramics he's tried on one end, and the vintage-output models he's tried on the other. He likes it enough that he doesn't want his money back -- he's willing to wait for me to find a solution to the high gain feedback problem.

It's possible the higher coil tension combined with the wax between the baseplate and magnet will fix the whole shebang. But I want to be able to present him with some other options in case it doesn't, hence my humbly approaching the throne of the AMPGE Collective...

3/21/2006 7:39 PM
Seeing as you asked...	I would much rather have a pint than go around throwing water at Yogi Bear. I may be in the minority

3/24/2006 7:07 AM

back to what I think.......a little microphonics is voicy and adds character....but if you find the balance between winding and potting...I don't think it's too bad. I prefer to keep my pickups under 6 ohms on my strats..."thickness" is attained by using an 047 as opposed to an 022
cap...and by winding creatively.Heres two totally diferent clips of the same set of pickups in the same axe....look at the character variances from neck to middle...that tone cap...gets in the voicy spots...and lower ohms...5.7 etc...are not as thin as some may dread...if wound skillfully/creatively.

some older strat pickups may not have even been potted...but...Unless you're looking to preserve all icepick highs...then waxing at proper temps...seems pleasantly softening.

I like potting mine.And will.

this clip is very wet and reverby...but still shows a lot of the pickups true character...poly 5.7
mp3 dream of trower.mp3

this clip is very dry and a good sample of the character of this pickup...poly 5.8
mp3 dreamy middle pickup.mp3

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