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Are Gays Recruiting Our Children?

10/9/2005 2:58 PM
anon	Are Gays Recruiting Our Children? I always thought that Gays said they were born Gay and were not interested in turning heterosexuals gay. Now there are allegations that some gays recruit kids into the gay lifestyle, and they allegedly do it right in schools often with the schools permission. http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=9144 Are gays recruiting our kids into thier lifestyle? If so, what should be done?

10/9/2005 2:58 PM

anon

Are Gays Recruiting Our Children?

I always thought that Gays said they were born Gay and were not interested in turning heterosexuals gay.

Now there are allegations that some gays recruit kids into the gay lifestyle, and they allegedly do it right in schools often with the schools permission.

http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=9144

Are gays recruiting our kids into thier lifestyle? If so, what should be done?

10/9/2005 3:13 PM
Pierre Debs	I have no problems with gay people. But just like religious people who might "thrust" their beliefs or lifestyles on my children, gays who would do the same are in for the same ass wooping the religious freak is gonna get if he/she tries this shit on my kids.

10/9/2005 6:23 PM
Mark Hammer	What the hell kind of nonsense are you spouting? First off, the article you link to is, well, paranoid. Honestly, you'd think the authors were afraid of getting "cooties from gays". Second, there is no attempt to "recruit" heterosexual youth, organized or not. Rather, there is a justifiable and healthy movement to get kids who ARE same-sex oriented in their erotic interests to come to grips with that aspect of themselves and merge into their identity smoothly and with a minimum of strife. They, like anyone, deserve to feel comfortable with who they are, and the best way to make people in minority groups feel comfortable with their identity is to portray it as normal. If normalizing same-sex orientation bugs some people, then so be it, but to portray it as if it was "communists luring our children" is simply McCarthyism in another guise. The only segment of youth with a higher suicide rate than gay youth are aboriginal youth (and I imagine a segment of aboriginal youth killing themselves are also gay). Why? Well, generally speaking, gay youth are not able to partake in the same activities that their heterosexual friends do, feel uncomfortably different, and quite often cannot speak to their parents or clergy or even their friends about their feelings. And of course, if you look at the factors that tend to precipitate suicide attempts in youth of any stripe, feeling like they are not able to talk to anyone about their problems is right near the top. If high schools and middle schools are supporting programs to help kids with "nonstandard" sexualities grapple with their differences productively, it is not because they are somehow turning a blind eye to sin, or in collusion with these "gays". Rather, it is because there isn't a high school teacher alive whose heart isn't broken when they find out one of their students has either taken their own life or attempted it. Is middle school too young? I don't know. On the one hand, pubertal development has moved ever lower in age over the past 100 years. On the other hand, I don't think many kids in general have a sense of their sexuality or orientation as early as 10 or even 12. They're certainly curious, but "knowing" you're gay at 10 is a bit like "knowing" you're English-speaking at age 2. It assumes way too much certainty and self-awareness for that development phase. There are studies where gay and lesbian adults have been asked when they first "knew" they were different in that way. Personally, as much as I understand and accept the biolological basis of sexual orientation, I don't place a lot of creedence in this particular data. There is far too much social psychological data indicating that people tend to adjust their memories of things in line with their personal theories of that aspect of people. There is every reason to believe that people who have had to struggle with some aspect of their identity will "remember" it is having been who they always were. Doesn't change the fundamental nature of their sexual orientation, but it does suggest that asking people to reminisce won't get you great data. Now, I suppose, there are some who would take the stance that homosexuality is such a terrible sin that interventions which save the lives of such youth are simply inappropriate. You can imagine I would disagree with such a view rather stridently.

10/9/2005 6:23 PM

Mark Hammer

What the hell kind of nonsense are you spouting?

First off, the article you link to is, well, paranoid. Honestly, you'd think the authors were afraid of getting "cooties from gays".

Second, there is no attempt to "recruit" heterosexual youth, organized or not. Rather, there is a justifiable and healthy movement to get kids who ARE same-sex oriented in their erotic interests to come to grips with that aspect of themselves and merge into their identity smoothly and with a minimum of strife. They, like anyone, deserve to feel comfortable with who they are, and the best way to make people in minority groups feel comfortable with their identity is to portray it as normal. If normalizing same-sex orientation bugs some people, then so be it, but to portray it as if it was "communists luring our children" is simply McCarthyism in another guise.

The only segment of youth with a higher suicide rate than gay youth are aboriginal youth (and I imagine a segment of aboriginal youth killing themselves are also gay). Why? Well, generally speaking, gay youth are not able to partake in the same activities that their heterosexual friends do, feel uncomfortably different, and quite often cannot speak to their parents or clergy or even their friends about their feelings. And of course, if you look at the factors that tend to precipitate suicide attempts in youth of any stripe, feeling like they are not able to talk to anyone about their problems is right near the top.

If high schools and middle schools are supporting programs to help kids with "nonstandard" sexualities grapple with their differences productively, it is not because they are somehow turning a blind eye to sin, or in collusion with these "gays". Rather, it is because there isn't a high school teacher alive whose heart isn't broken when they find out one of their students has either taken their own life or attempted it.

Is middle school *too* young? I don't know. On the one hand, pubertal development has moved ever lower in age over the past 100 years. On the other hand, I don't think many kids in general have a sense of their sexuality or orientation as early as 10 or even 12. They're certainly curious, but "knowing" you're gay at 10 is a bit like "knowing" you're English-speaking at age 2. It assumes way too much certainty and self-awareness for that development phase. There are studies where gay and lesbian adults have been asked when they first "knew" they were different in that way. Personally, as much as I understand and accept the biolological basis of sexual orientation, I don't place a lot of creedence in this particular data. There is far too much social psychological data indicating that people tend to adjust their memories of things in line with their personal theories of that aspect of people. There is every reason to believe that people who have had to struggle with some aspect of their identity will "remember" it is having been who they always were. Doesn't change the fundamental nature of their sexual orientation, but it does suggest that asking people to reminisce won't get you great data.

Now, I suppose, there are some who would take the stance that homosexuality is such a terrible sin that interventions which save the lives of such youth are simply inappropriate. You can imagine I would disagree with such a view rather stridently.

10/9/2005 9:49 PM
Double Dealer	Ahem... http://www.article8.org/docs/news_events/glsen_043005/black_book/black_book_inside.htm

10/9/2005 11:47 PM
Mark Lavelle	Just for the intellectual exercise of it, let's assume that the story is true... Are you really telling me that reading a booklet like that is somehow going to make my kid homosexual? My guess is it would be more likely to have the opposite effect.

10/9/2005 11:54 PM
Pierre Debs	It might peak his interest and this is where the problem arises. Puns intended

10/10/2005 6:42 PM
Double Dealer	The OP asked whether or not members of the gay community or gay organisations are engaging in recruitment activities. The evidence I provided proves that yes, this activity is taking place. Don't try and shrug it off via some supposed conflict of interest. It is happening. The effectivness of this material is another question. To suggest it has no impact on impressionable preteens is naive at best.

10/10/2005 6:42 PM

Double Dealer

The OP asked whether or not members of the gay community or gay organisations are engaging in recruitment activities. The evidence I provided proves that yes, this activity is taking place. Don't try and shrug it off via some supposed conflict of interest. It is happening.

The effectivness of this material is another question. To suggest it has no impact on impressionable preteens is naive at best.

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