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A can of tornado whupass - everyone okay?

11/17/2005 7:15 AM
Mark Hammer	A can of tornado whupass - everyone okay? Yesterday handed the midline of this continent some serious weather. Minnesota and Manitoba got frozen and crapped on, snowflake-style, and several dozen tornados showed up in a number of southern states. So, everybody okay out there? Anyone need a hand?

11/17/2005 5:07 PM
Enzo	Here in Michigan, mild weather haas been hanging on, still in the 50s at least. Then yesterday, boom, I woke up yesterday afternoon to go to work, and there was an inch of snow and it was cold. In one five mile stretch of interstate I counted 11 cars in the ditch. ALmost all were SUVs. For some reason the first snow always kills a bunch of SUVs. Winter is here. Also been very windy the last few days and a bunch of folks were without power. Still, nothing really serious. Gas was down to $2.08 today.

11/17/2005 5:07 PM

Enzo

Here in Michigan, mild weather haas been hanging on, still in the 50s at least. Then yesterday, boom, I woke up yesterday afternoon to go to work, and there was an inch of snow and it was cold. In one five mile stretch of interstate I counted 11 cars in the ditch. ALmost all were SUVs. For some reason the first snow always kills a bunch of SUVs. Winter is here. Also been very windy the last few days and a bunch of folks were without power. Still, nothing really serious. Gas was down to $2.08 today.

11/18/2005 7:47 AM
Mark Hammer	We had an incident in town the other week, where a woman with 7 kids in an SUV tried to merge onto an expressway, and swerved. The vehicle did what SUV's are best known for doing - it rolled over. Unfortunately two of the kids were seated in the trunk area without seatbelts. One of them was thrown from the vehicle and died. An article in the paper several days later mentioned some things that did not surprise me, but still I would rather have some verification of their authenticity. What it noted was that some research had observed greater tendency by SUV drivers to tailgate, and greater tendency to drive while actively employing a cellphone. There were a few other bad driving habits noted but these are the two I remember. Note that these are not universally true of SUV drivers, just statistically more likely to be seen than in drivers of non-SUV vehicles. Perhaps the most noteworthy comment in the article was that SUV drivers tend to overestimate the safety or capacity of the vehicle. It strikes me that would be the primary source of a lot of the accidents witnessed. I remember one study I heard described in a radio interview with a sports medicine researcher, in which the same type of running shoes was given to a number of athletes; half of whom were told they were high-end expensive ones, and half of whom were told they were "budget" shoes. The athletes who believed the shoes were high-end had considerably more accidents and injuries. The researcher concluded that this occurred as a consequence of overconfidence in the technology - they took more chances. I suspect the same thing occurs with SUV's. They ARE pricey, and it is easy - particularly when seated higher up - to perceive that one has greater "capacity" in some way, whether to stop, to accelerate, to handle a sharp turn, and so on. AS for tailgating, I'm curious about how the angle of vision at that height alters the sense of distance and acceleration. There may well be some personality component involved (i.e., certain types of people are attracted to SUV's), but I'm not going to cast aspersions on SUV owners since a great many drive safe, never have an accident, and behave responsibly (although my wife and I joke about "the black truck rule" - people who drive all black truck/jeep-like vehicles seem to behave as if none of the rules of proper road behaviour were actually intended for them). It was the first major snow of the year here last night, and traffic was a mess this morning, with at least a dozen major accidents tying up major intersections. There's a few things that strike me as probably happening. First off, you have doofuses like me that have no winter tires or haven't put them on yet. Then you have icy roads, and you get folks who have absolutely no idea how to drive on icy roads. Over and above that, though, I think there is a kind of memory phenomenon where the radically different weather conditions present a distinctive context that makes it just that much harder to recall what to do in situation X or Y. It's that extra 300msec of decision time that often makes the difference between safe driving and accidents. It's the extra 300msec of decision time that also causes the snarl-ups at intersections. People miss an amber and find themselves somewhere where they shouldn't be, and so on. In general, it is human decision-making that makes winter driving as bad as it is.

11/18/2005 7:47 AM

Mark Hammer

We had an incident in town the other week, where a woman with 7 kids in an SUV tried to merge onto an expressway, and swerved. The vehicle did what SUV's are best known for doing - it rolled over. Unfortunately two of the kids were seated in the trunk area without seatbelts. One of them was thrown from the vehicle and died.

An article in the paper several days later mentioned some things that did not surprise me, but still I would rather have some verification of their authenticity. What it noted was that *some* research had observed greater tendency by SUV drivers to tailgate, and greater tendency to drive while actively employing a cellphone. There were a few other bad driving habits noted but these are the two I remember. Note that these are not universally true of SUV drivers, just statistically more likely to be seen than in drivers of non-SUV vehicles.

Perhaps the most noteworthy comment in the article was that SUV drivers tend to overestimate the safety or capacity of the vehicle. It strikes me that would be the primary source of a lot of the accidents witnessed. I remember one study I heard described in a radio interview with a sports medicine researcher, in which the same type of running shoes was given to a number of athletes; half of whom were told they were high-end expensive ones, and half of whom were told they were "budget" shoes. The athletes who believed the shoes were high-end had considerably more accidents and injuries. The researcher concluded that this occurred as a consequence of overconfidence in the technology - they took more chances.

I suspect the same thing occurs with SUV's. They ARE pricey, and it is easy - particularly when seated higher up - to perceive that one has greater "capacity" in some way, whether to stop, to accelerate, to handle a sharp turn, and so on. AS for tailgating, I'm curious about how the angle of vision at that height alters the sense of distance and acceleration. There may well be some personality component involved (i.e., certain types of people are attracted to SUV's), but I'm not going to cast aspersions on SUV owners since a great many drive safe, never have an accident, and behave responsibly (although my wife and I joke about "the black truck rule" - people who drive all black truck/jeep-like vehicles seem to behave as if none of the rules of proper road behaviour were actually intended for them).

It was the first major snow of the year here last night, and traffic was a mess this morning, with at least a dozen major accidents tying up major intersections. There's a few things that strike me as probably happening. First off, you have doofuses like me that have no winter tires or haven't put them on yet. Then you have icy roads, and you get folks who have absolutely no idea how to drive on icy roads. Over and above that, though, I think there is a kind of memory phenomenon where the radically different weather conditions present a distinctive context that makes it just that much harder to recall what to do in situation X or Y. It's that extra 300msec of decision time that often makes the difference between safe driving and accidents. It's the extra 300msec of decision time that also causes the snarl-ups at intersections. People miss an amber and find themselves somewhere where they shouldn't be, and so on. In general, it is human decision-making that makes winter driving as bad as it is.

11/18/2005 9:20 AM
SpeedRacer	OT / driving/tailgating/SUV stupidity/etc and it is easy - particularly when seated higher up - to perceive that one has greater "capacity" in some way, whether to stop, to accelerate, to handle a sharp turn, and so on. AS for tailgating, I'm curious about how the angle of vision at that height alters the sense of distance and acceleration. imho the perspective destroys your sense of "speed". The closer to the ground you are, the more you feel it - and the faster things go by. 70MPH in my old 2 seater Triumph will terrify you. (it should; the car has lousy brakes!) 70MPH in a good modern car is comfortable, and 70MPH in a Chevy Suburban feels pretty slow. You don't hear the engine, you don't feel the road vibrations and it seems to be going by slowly from up there. And you hit the nail on the head- too often they are tailgating - perhaps from this distorted sense of safety/speed. Folks forget (or never get taught) a bunch of things that are taught in drivers ed and also at competition schools.. like it takes .45 seconds (best case) to see something and move your foot from the gas to the brake pedal. This is a half second before you can even begin reacting to something. At 60 mph, you have travelled 44 feet in that half second. An average vehicle is 14 ft long. The math is against you stopping in time. Racers as a general rule are often taught to look 7 seconds up the track so that you will have time to see what is developing ahead of you and have time to react to it. How many commuters look farther up the road than the pair of taillights in their way? Then place them in a 2 ton tarted up pickup truck (which is what they are) with weak brakes, a truck suspension reworked for comfort, a high center of gravity and all season tires and it all comes apart. The mass is the worst offender IMHO. ps: I thought everyone in CA would be good at the winter thing by now? I have friends from up north that don't beleive in snow tires either. It's amazing to me. They are so inexpensive compared to getting towed or hitting something.. I am one of the only folks I know who uses them. It's sad really. The difference is night and day. I pass 4x4's all winter (in a RWD sports car) bc they are on all season radials and can't stop or corner worth a damn. They can beat me off the light in deep stuff bc they have 4wd but that's it. Folks don't understand that 4wd does not help you much anywere but accelerating. pps: 2 words for you mr poet laureat: Bridgestone Blizzaks. Get thee to a tire store and keep yourself alive.

11/18/2005 9:20 AM

SpeedRacer

OT / driving/tailgating/SUV stupidity/etc

and it is easy - particularly when seated higher up - to perceive that one has greater "capacity" in some way, whether to stop, to accelerate, to handle a sharp turn, and so on. AS for tailgating, I'm curious about how the angle of vision at that height alters the sense of distance and acceleration.

imho the perspective destroys your sense of "speed". The closer to the ground you are, the more you feel it - and the faster things go by.
70MPH in my old 2 seater Triumph will terrify you. (it should; the car has lousy brakes!)
70MPH in a good modern car is comfortable, and
70MPH in a Chevy Suburban feels pretty slow.

You don't hear the engine, you don't feel the road vibrations and it seems to be going by slowly from up there. And you hit the nail on the head- too often they are tailgating - perhaps from this distorted sense of safety/speed. Folks forget (or never get taught) a bunch of things that are taught in drivers ed and also at competition schools.. like it takes .45 seconds (best case) to see something and move your foot from the gas to the brake pedal. This is a half second before you can even begin reacting to something. At 60 mph, you have travelled 44 feet in that half second. An average vehicle is 14 ft long. The math is against you stopping in time. Racers as a general rule are often taught to look 7 seconds up the track so that you will have time to see what is developing ahead of you and have time to react to it. How many commuters look farther up the road than the pair of taillights in their way? Then place them in a 2 ton tarted up pickup truck (which is what they are) with weak brakes, a truck suspension reworked for comfort, a high center of gravity and all season tires and it all comes apart. The mass is the worst offender IMHO.

ps: I thought everyone in CA would be good at the winter thing by now?

I have friends from up north that don't beleive in snow tires either. It's amazing to me. They are so inexpensive compared to getting towed or hitting something..
I am one of the only folks I know who uses them. It's sad really. The difference is night and day. I pass 4x4's all winter (in a RWD sports car) bc they are on all season radials and can't stop or corner worth a damn. They can beat me off the light in deep stuff bc they have 4wd but that's it. Folks don't understand that 4wd does not help you much anywere but accelerating.

pps: 2 words for you mr poet laureat: Bridgestone Blizzaks. Get thee to a tire store and keep yourself alive.

11/21/2005 10:53 AM

quote:
"I pass 4x4's all winter (in a RWD sports car) bc they are on all season radials and can't stop or corner worth a damn. They can beat me off the light in deep stuff bc they have 4wd but that's it. Folks don't understand that 4wd does not help you much anywere but accelerating. "

you should go for a ride in my subie w/blizzaks on all corners...

all season = no season

11/22/2005 1:21 PM
SpeedRacer	Blizzaks r00l!

11/18/2005 5:34 PM
Enzo	Re: A can of tornado whupass - everyone okay? I'm convinced it is the overestimating the vehicle thing. Every year it is the SUVs in the ditch. I think they have the idea that four wheel drive means it will drive through anything. Sorry, ice is ice. There are dimwits on the cel phones in all kinds of vehicles, but I do think that SUV owners statistically are more likely to have a cel phone than say a driver of a 20 year old Pinto. Thus there would be a greater percentage of them using the things. I saw something yesterday that tweaked my stupid meter. I was behind a big old Jimmy with all the macho bumper stickers and a vanity plate. He was the sort that drives around you to wedge himself in front of you before the exit ramp, which he demonstrated for us all. He had hanging below his rear bumper a pair of testicles. I assume they were runner or possible cast metal. But a pair of big ole hound dog nuts, for sure. I gave a silent gimme a break and an eye roll in his honor. And then I had to think about just where one would purchase such a thing.

11/18/2005 5:34 PM

Enzo

Re: A can of tornado whupass - everyone okay?

I'm convinced it is the overestimating the vehicle thing. Every year it is the SUVs in the ditch. I think they have the idea that four wheel drive means it will drive through anything. Sorry, ice is ice.

There are dimwits on the cel phones in all kinds of vehicles, but I do think that SUV owners statistically are more likely to have a cel phone than say a driver of a 20 year old Pinto. Thus there would be a greater percentage of them using the things.

I saw something yesterday that tweaked my stupid meter. I was behind a big old Jimmy with all the macho bumper stickers and a vanity plate. He was the sort that drives around you to wedge himself in front of you before the exit ramp, which he demonstrated for us all. He had hanging below his rear bumper a pair of testicles. I assume they were runner or possible cast metal. But a pair of big ole hound dog nuts, for sure. I gave a silent gimme a break and an eye roll in his honor.

And then I had to think about just where one would purchase such a thing.

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