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5E3 and tremolo

9/25/2004 9:15 PM
Benboom	5E3 and tremolo I'm sure this has been discussed before but the forum's cranky search engine isn't working right and it won't find anything on this. I thought there had been a thread a month or so ago...but maybe I'm making that up. Anyway, I'd like to make a 5E3 and add a tremolo circuit to it. The early Tremolux has trem but its phase inverter is different from the 5E3's - since I already have a real 5D3 (which is what the that Tremolux really is) and I want a 5E3 I don't want to go that way. I also don't want to try to figure out that godawful two tube trem like the Vibrasonic (etc.) used; it's just beyond my ability, I know it. That was a fixed bias amp, anyway If there was an earlier thread on this, can someone point me to it? If not and somebody has already done this, what did you end up with? Thanks!

9/25/2004 9:15 PM

Benboom

5E3 and tremolo

I'm sure this has been discussed before but the forum's cranky search engine isn't working right and it won't find anything on this. I thought there had been a thread a month or so ago...but maybe I'm making that up.

Anyway, I'd like to make a 5E3 and add a tremolo circuit to it. The early Tremolux has trem but its phase inverter is different from the 5E3's - since I already have a real 5D3 (which is what the that Tremolux really is) and I want a 5E3 I don't want to go that way. I also don't want to try to figure out that godawful two tube trem like the Vibrasonic (etc.) used; it's just beyond my ability, I know it. That was a fixed bias amp, anyway

If there was an earlier thread on this, can someone point me to it? If not and somebody has already done this, what did you end up with?

Thanks!

9/25/2004 10:55 PM
Matt H	i'd be tempted to try a bias wiggler on the power tubes... I want to say a couple of fender amps used that setup. princeton maybe? could also check for a matchless. if you're trying to hook it into a preexisting amp, you could easily use SS for the oscillator... if you're doing the bias wiggler type, your signal never actually passes through it, if you're apprehensive about SS in your signal path.

9/25/2004 10:55 PM

Matt H

i'd be tempted to try a bias wiggler on the power tubes... I want to say a couple of fender amps used that setup. princeton maybe? could also check for a matchless.

if you're trying to hook it into a preexisting amp, you could easily use SS for the oscillator... if you're doing the bias wiggler type, your signal never actually passes through it, if you're apprehensive about SS in your signal path.

9/26/2004 1:12 AM
Carl Gigun	That's neat I've never looked at the 5D3 before. You want to maintain the cathode bias output section, right? The first two options that come to mind are wiggling the bias on the power stage cathode resistor or the last stage before the phase inverter, vibro champ style. The vibrochamp circuit is already done for you, the power stage method doesn't appear on any cathode biased fender I've seen yet so you'd have to get creative. You could probably borrow some ideas from the LDR bug type trem and make a suitably sized LDR part of the cathode resistance, or you could try to inject the signal from the oscillator directly into the cathode. Start with one of the trem oscillators that have the cathode follower on their output because tube cathodes are low impedance places to inject a signal. Sounds like a cool project, -Carl

9/26/2004 1:12 AM

Carl Gigun

That's neat I've never looked at the 5D3 before.

You want to maintain the cathode bias output section, right? The first two options that come to mind are wiggling the bias on the power stage cathode resistor or the last stage before the phase inverter, vibro champ style.

The vibrochamp circuit is already done for you, the power stage method doesn't appear on any cathode biased fender I've seen yet so you'd have to get creative. You could probably borrow some ideas from the LDR bug type trem and make a suitably sized LDR part of the cathode resistance, or you could try to inject the signal from the oscillator directly into the cathode. Start with one of the trem oscillators that have the cathode follower on their output because tube cathodes are low impedance places to inject a signal.

Sounds like a cool project,

-Carl

9/26/2004 1:22 AM
Benboom	The 5D3 is a much-overlooked amp IMO. The 5E3 gets all the press so I'm going to make one to see if it's worth the raves. So far the ones I have played haven't sounded as good as my 5D3 to me, but these things are all different. I do know that when I was doing session work in LA I got calls for the AMP! (Yeah, I did get calls for the guitar player, too It still sounds great to me. Anyway, borrowing from the Vibro Champ is a good idea. That circuit is one I can probably cope with! I wasn't sure if there were any problems grafting that in with the PI of a Deluxe...Gotta go look at my Weber book that has all those schematics in it and hold the two together. I also looked at the Vox (Berkeley II, if I remember right) trem section but that amp uses a long-tail PI - totally different from the 5D3 or 5E3. I just don't know enough to start cutting and pasting with impunity yet. Thanks!

9/26/2004 1:22 AM

Benboom

The 5D3 is a much-overlooked amp IMO. The 5E3 gets all the press so I'm going to make one to see if it's worth the raves. So far the ones I have played haven't sounded as good as my 5D3 to me, but these things are all different. I do know that when I was doing session work in LA I got calls for the AMP! (Yeah, I did get calls for the guitar player, too :-)

It still sounds great to me.

Anyway, borrowing from the Vibro Champ is a good idea. That circuit is one I can probably cope with! I wasn't sure if there were any problems grafting that in with the PI of a Deluxe...Gotta go look at my Weber book that has all those schematics in it and hold the two together.

I also looked at the Vox (Berkeley II, if I remember right) trem section but that amp uses a long-tail PI - totally different from the 5D3 or 5E3. I just don't know enough to start cutting and pasting with impunity yet.

Thanks!

9/26/2004 3:07 AM
jbrew73	try looking at the ampeg jet series of amps for a good bias wiggle circuit for cathode biased amps http://www1.korksoft.com/~schem/ampegamps/j12b_jet.pdf

9/26/2004 3:36 AM
Carl Gigun	The vibrochamp circuit should work fine with the 5E3. The PI is isolated from the gain stage before it and you don't have negative feedback to deal with like the vibrochamp so there are a couple fewer components needed too. Looks like the PI is the main difference between the 5E3 and the 5D3. Smaller coupling caps too. You could probably change one amp to the other with just a few minutes of soldering. -Carl

9/26/2004 3:36 AM

Carl Gigun

The vibrochamp circuit should work fine with the 5E3. The PI is isolated from the gain stage before it and you don't have negative feedback to deal with like the vibrochamp so there are a couple fewer components needed too. Looks like the PI is the main difference between the 5E3 and the 5D3. Smaller coupling caps too. You could probably change one amp to the other with just a few minutes of soldering.

-Carl

9/26/2004 11:14 AM
Chris @ CMW amps	Hi Benboom The bias-trem will certainly work but you do have to watch the 6V6-plates-current... up the cathodeR and/or the 5k R to screengrid R for lowering the current somewhat. Some time ago I did install a VibroChamp tremolo circuit in a BandmasterReverb ( on the 3rd pre-amp-stage ) and altough it does sound very "groovy" you do loose some volume while using the tremolo. You could certainly give it a try on the V2-gainstage in a 5E3. Have fun! Chris

9/26/2004 11:14 AM

Chris @ CMW amps

Hi Benboom

The bias-trem will certainly work but you do have to watch the 6V6-plates-current... up the cathodeR and/or the 5k R to screengrid R for lowering the current somewhat.

Some time ago I did install a VibroChamp tremolo circuit in a BandmasterReverb ( on the 3rd pre-amp-stage ) and altough it does sound very "groovy" you do loose some volume while using the tremolo. You could certainly give it a try on the V2-gainstage in a 5E3.

Have fun!

Chris

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