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Vintage threads from the first ten years

wrong name for this forum ?

5/6/2003 9:15 AM
Chris ( CMW amps )	wrong name for this forum ? Hi all After reading some threads I guess we've to change the name of this forum into FlamingSection Kindest regards , Chris

5/6/2003 2:16 PM
Mark Hammer	Nah, just "growing pains" I suggested this forum to T-boy as an experiment and he was generous enough to play along, since some of what ought to go in here was cropping up elsewhere anyways (and may still be doing that). Anonymous flamers are going to show up anyways. The real issue is whether there can be enough sustained interesting and varied content beyond that to encourage participation and provide a useful service. I' m still waiting for the threads about how to swing better deals from parts manufacturers or jobbers, or what sort of loan arrangements provide the fewest ulcers, or where people find advertisements pay off biggest (or how to tell if they are doing so). There is going to be some knowledge that folks will hoard to provide some competitive advantage to themselves, but less than you'd think. Indeed, lessons learned the hard way often become more palatable to the victim when the experience can be shared and others can avoid the same pitfalls.

5/6/2003 2:16 PM

Mark Hammer

Nah, just "growing pains"

5/6/2003 6:37 PM
Joe Gagan	posting topics Mark, I hear what you are saying. But since this forum is public knowledge, there is probably a lot of priveleged or private info in the topics of part sourcing and loans, that few of us are able to divulge anything meaningful without violating privacy agreements with our partners. In my case, I came into the mfg'ring biz with a zero credit rating, so my financial backing [ minimal ] is from friends and former clients from my const. biz. I can't say much more about that. By the time we get to buying parts in large numbers, the suppliers get a little touchy about putting these deals or even the sources of this type of pricing etc on a public forum. One piece of advice I CAN give however , is to keep in mind that you can get volume pricing on parts even if you aren't buying it all at one time. It is called 'scheduling your order' Here is how it works: example- You make an agreement to buy 1000 Hammond boxes over a year period, many suppliers will give you the 1000 piece price if you agree to order 90 a month over a 12 month period. The terms vary , but most places will do if you have been a buyer for a while, or if you have the amount open on your credit card to order the 90 quantitity at one time. This can work for pots,etc. another good reason to consider streamlining your circuits to use alot of the same pot value etc. It takes some big balls to commit to those big numbers, but think creatively, let's say you only sell 50 pedals a month, so you have to sell off another 40 raw boxes to other builders to keep your agreement. At the price you are buying them at , you can easily move them on the net to other builders and keep things moving. Stay flexible. I just made a deal to get my knobs at a huge volume price even though I was only placing a small order at this time using this method. Part of the tip is that I had already placed an order earlier last month, so I was an established customer [ When they look and see that you are already in the system, this is good]. I also had switched to them from someone else, so they had incentive to work hard to please me. Be nice to the person on the phone [ put yourself in their shoes], sometimes it takes getting THEM to think creatively to get out of the 'normal' way they do their process. Remember, they WANT your account, they will do some pretty amazing things IF you ask. Be polite, but insistent. It is pretty cool how many times I have had a breakthorough AFTER being told it was impossible. At each supplier, get a sales rep that you work with every time you call. This person will get to know you and your needs, and do a good job for you. If you get a dud [ no enthususasm, sounds like you are interrupting their day etc], get off the phone and call back till you get someone who is excited to help you. I am serious. I love negotiating. I have had a great coach in this. Keep your emotions in check, make the deal beneficial to both parties, and have a good time with it. Remember there is always another way to get it done, never negotiate from the position that you NEED that other person. It simply is NOT TRUE, and will put you at a disadvantage I will break this out into another thread to share it as well.

5/6/2003 6:37 PM

Joe Gagan

posting topics

Mark, I hear what you are saying.
But since this forum is public knowledge, there is probably a lot of priveleged or private info in the topics of part sourcing and loans, that few of us are able to divulge anything meaningful without violating privacy agreements with our partners.

In my case, I came into the mfg'ring biz with a zero credit rating, so my financial backing [ minimal ] is from friends and former clients from my const. biz.
I can't say much more about that.

By the time we get to buying parts in large numbers, the suppliers get a little touchy about putting these deals or even the sources of this type of pricing etc on a public forum.
One piece of advice I CAN give however , is to keep in mind that you can get volume pricing on parts even if you aren't buying it all at one time. It is called 'scheduling your order' Here is how it works:

example- You make an agreement to buy 1000 Hammond boxes over a year period, many suppliers will give you the 1000 piece price if you agree to order 90 a month over a 12 month period. The terms vary , but most places will do if you have been a buyer for a while, or if you have the amount open on your credit card to order the 90 quantitity at one time.
This can work for pots,etc. another good reason to consider streamlining your circuits to use alot of the same pot value etc.
It takes some big balls to commit to those big numbers, but think creatively, let's say you only sell 50 pedals a month, so you have to sell off another 40 raw boxes to other builders to keep your agreement. At the price you are buying them at , you can easily move them on the net to other builders and keep things moving. Stay flexible.

I just made a deal to get my knobs at a huge volume price even though I was only placing a small order at this time using this method. Part of the tip is that I had already placed an order earlier last month, so I was an established customer [ When they look and see that you are already in the system, this is good]. I also had switched to them from someone else, so they had incentive to work hard to please me.

Be nice to the person on the phone [ put yourself in their shoes], sometimes it takes getting THEM to think creatively to get out of the 'normal' way they do their process.
Remember, they WANT your account, they will do some pretty amazing things IF you ask. Be polite, but insistent. It is pretty cool how many times I have had a breakthorough AFTER being told it was impossible.

At each supplier, get a sales rep that you work with every time you call. This person will get to know you and your needs, and do a good job for you. If you get a dud [ no enthususasm, sounds like you are interrupting their day etc], get off the phone and call back till you get someone who is excited to help you. I am serious.

I love negotiating. I have had a great coach in this. Keep your emotions in check, make the deal beneficial to both parties, and have a good time with it. Remember there is always another way to get it done, never negotiate from the position that you NEED that other person. It simply is NOT TRUE, and will put you at a disadvantage

I will break this out into another thread to share it as well.

5/7/2003 4:00 PM
Mark Hammer	Excellent post "...info in the topics of part sourcing and loans, that few of us are able to divulge anything meaningful without violating privacy agreements with our partners..." Funny how the way that one doesn't say something can be informative in and of itself. The inference here is that although for reason of professionalism and business ethics, you can't say anything specific, there IS room for manoeuvering and no reason whatsoever to NOT consider and broach creative arrangements with suppliers. Terrific advice! Whether in pedal design, music, or business, far too easy to be undermined by the assumption that the "normal" way of doing things or the first way you stumble across is the only way. Thanks for your generosity, guy.

5/7/2003 4:00 PM

Mark Hammer

Excellent post

"...info in the topics of part sourcing and loans, that few of us are able to divulge anything meaningful without violating privacy agreements with our partners..."

Funny how the way that one *doesn't* say something can be informative in and of itself. The inference here is that although for reason of professionalism and business ethics, you can't say anything specific, there IS room for manoeuvering and no reason whatsoever to NOT consider and broach creative arrangements with suppliers. Terrific advice! Whether in pedal design, music, or business, far too easy to be undermined by the assumption that the "normal" way of doing things or the first way you stumble across is the only way.

Thanks for your generosity, guy.

5/8/2003 11:47 AM
Chris ( CMW amps )	Re: Nah, just "growing pains" / Europeanorders Hi Mark Thanks for starting this forum and you are right about the now and then flamers . but ( ha ha ) : I don't really understand why some people who are working on great tones from guitars/fx/amps they do build/tweak/repair don't mind the tone of their postings . Over here in the Netherlands you've got a saying "you catch more flies with sirup then with shit" . Enough rambling , I do look like a tree huggin' hippie born 2 months and 4 days after hendrix' death . Now a real BB forum question ! Because of the higher parts-prices over here in Europe I'm looking for a couple of fellow builders to purchase some larger quantities parts like OTs . Did get an email from MJ Harnish ( now in Germany ) regarding this . More fellow builders in the Netherlands , Belgium and Germany ? Chris CMW amps Driebergen , The Netherlands

5/8/2003 11:47 AM

Chris ( CMW amps )

Re: Nah, just "growing pains" / Europeanorders

Hi Mark

Thanks for starting this forum and you are right about the now and then flamers .

but ( ha ha ) :

I don't really understand why some people who are working on great tones from guitars/fx/amps they do build/tweak/repair don't mind the tone of their postings . Over here in the Netherlands you've got a saying "you catch more flies with sirup then with shit" . Enough rambling , I do look like a tree huggin' hippie born 2 months and 4 days after hendrix' death .

Now a real BB forum question !
Because of the higher parts-prices over here in Europe I'm looking for a couple of fellow builders to purchase some larger quantities parts like OTs . Did get an email from MJ Harnish ( now in Germany ) regarding this . More fellow builders in the Netherlands , Belgium and Germany ?

Chris
CMW amps
Driebergen , The Netherlands

5/6/2003 4:18 PM
jaysg	Re: wrong name for this forum ? I personally can't bear to read that one thread, once I got a taste. It all comes down to this: Different people are comfortable with differing levels of risk. For example, R.G. is not comfortable with a level of risk that's mother's milk to Zack....

5/6/2003 5:13 PM
LFOscalator	This board was clearly meant for expressing business related discussion. I think most comments directed at business have been good and are worth learning from. Some lessons can be a little harsh, but after examining with a critical eye, they are worth learning. Unfortunately, if I was a successful business person and was ridiculed for giving some damn good real life experience info on a bulletin board, I might say the hell with it and stop sharing some of the best discussion this forum has to offer. I hope that doesn't happen. I've learned some good things from most comments. Hope to see even more. LFO

5/6/2003 5:13 PM

LFOscalator

This board was clearly meant for expressing business related discussion. I think most comments directed at business have been good and are worth learning from. Some lessons can be a little harsh, but after examining with a critical eye, they are worth learning.

Unfortunately, if I was a successful business person and was ridiculed for giving some damn good real life experience info on a bulletin board, I might say the hell with it and stop sharing some of the best discussion this forum has to offer.

I hope that doesn't happen. I've learned some good things from most comments. Hope to see even more.

LFO

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