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Association pricing/membership etc

1/19/2003 4:52 PM
SK	Association pricing/membership etc I've begun working on the association, what I can do as far as providing supplies now, and costs. I have not settled on any kind of membership pricing, but was thinking about 100.00 annual for an associate member, and about 250.00 for full membership. I also think maybe items or services in exchange for membership may be in order in some cases... Follows is a rough draft price sheet. It has 3 price breaks, member(A), associate(B), and general(C). There are items I currently buy in bulk qtty's and can offer lower than average prices, and items I only get the same as every other "reseller" and thus can only be competitive. In many cases bulk items are not marked all the way down to cost, but very close and the "C" pricing is competitive with current retail. I'm figuring membership fees B/C purchases will absorb some of the shipping costs (that isn't rolled into current pricing) and help move some of the items from non-bulk into the bulk purchased list.. At the proposed membership prices it would take 5 members or 10 associate members to make 1 or 2 bulk purchases with the dues... Here's the pricing est... Pickup Component Pricing Bulk Purchase items A/B/C Vintage style cloth Braid wire /ft 0.16/0.25/0.35 A5 or A2 bar magnets ea 1.00/2.50/4.00 A5 or A2 rod magnets (.656 tall only) ea 0.30/0.50/1.00 A5 or A2 rod magnets staggered sets /set 2.00/4.00/8.00 Bobbin Sets (Tele Bridge, Tele Neck, Strat) /set 2.00/3.00/4.00 Humbucker Bobbin Sets /pr 2.50/3.50/5.00 P-90 Bobbins ea 1.00/2.00/3.00 Humbucker Polepiece Screws (nickel plated) ea 0.10/0.40/0.75 Humbucker Slugs (nickel finish) Soon #2 x ½ brass screws (slotted) /100 2.40/3.50/5.00 Stainless Screws (pan head phillips 6-32) /100 3.50/4.25/5.00 Non Bulk Purchased Items A/B/C Single Conductor with Braided shield /ft 0.30/0.45/0.60 Four Conductor with Shield /ft 0.38/0.55/0.75 Humbucker Frames (nickel) ea 3.00/4.50/6.00 Humbucker Polepiece Screws (bright zinc plated) /100 8.25/9.50/11.00 Humbucker Slugs (heat treated alloy, bright finish) /100 7.26/9.00/11.00 Humbucker Slugs (heat treated alloy, black rust resist)/100 7.26/9.00/11.00 P-90 mounting screws (nickel) ea 0.47 /0.65/0.90 Humbucker mounting screws ea 0.12/025/0.60 Surgical Tubing /ft 1.25/2.00/2.75 Opinions, thoughts? especially about membership dues...

1/19/2003 4:52 PM

Association pricing/membership etc

I've begun working on the association, what I can do as far as providing supplies now, and costs. I have not settled on any kind of membership pricing, but was thinking about 100.00 annual for an associate member, and about 250.00 for full membership. I also think maybe items or services in exchange for membership may be in order in some cases...
Follows is a rough draft price sheet. It has 3 price breaks, member(A), associate(B), and general(C). There are items I currently buy in bulk qtty's and can offer lower than average prices, and items I only get the same as every other "reseller" and thus can only be competitive. In many cases bulk items are not marked all the way down to cost, but very close and the "C" pricing is competitive with current retail. I'm figuring membership fees B/C purchases will absorb some of the shipping costs (that isn't rolled into current pricing) and help move some of the items from non-bulk into the bulk purchased list..
At the proposed membership prices it would take 5 members or 10 associate members to make 1 or 2 bulk purchases with the dues...
Here's the pricing est...
Pickup Component Pricing

Bulk Purchase items A/B/C

Vintage style cloth Braid wire /ft 0.16/0.25/0.35
A5 or A2 bar magnets ea 1.00/2.50/4.00
A5 or A2 rod magnets (.656 tall only) ea 0.30/0.50/1.00
A5 or A2 rod magnets staggered sets /set 2.00/4.00/8.00
Bobbin Sets (Tele Bridge, Tele Neck, Strat) /set 2.00/3.00/4.00
Humbucker Bobbin Sets /pr 2.50/3.50/5.00
P-90 Bobbins ea 1.00/2.00/3.00
Humbucker Polepiece Screws (nickel plated) ea 0.10/0.40/0.75
Humbucker Slugs (nickel finish) Soon
#2 x ½ brass screws (slotted) /100 2.40/3.50/5.00
Stainless Screws (pan head phillips 6-32) /100 3.50/4.25/5.00

Non Bulk Purchased Items A/B/C

Single Conductor with Braided shield /ft 0.30/0.45/0.60
Four Conductor with Shield /ft 0.38/0.55/0.75
Humbucker Frames (nickel) ea 3.00/4.50/6.00
Humbucker Polepiece Screws (bright zinc plated) /100 8.25/9.50/11.00
Humbucker Slugs (heat treated alloy, bright finish) /100 7.26/9.00/11.00
Humbucker Slugs (heat treated alloy, black rust resist)/100 7.26/9.00/11.00
P-90 mounting screws (nickel) ea 0.47 /0.65/0.90
Humbucker mounting screws ea 0.12/025/0.60
Surgical Tubing /ft 1.25/2.00/2.75

Opinions, thoughts? especially about membership dues...

1/19/2003 10:09 PM
Yves	Hi SK, membership dues make sense to me according to the prices you get but my opinion is from an amateur point of view and obviously I can't get such prices on my own. Another good point to me is to get all the parts from the same supplier which is both handy and that may cut multiple shipping costs. One drawback for me is that I live in France and I need to add custom fees to this as other non US residents would (anyway I must admit that France is a better wine producer than pickup making parts... and I've already had to order from the US or UK) What about the intended fee for 'General' (C) membership? Yves.

1/19/2003 10:09 PM

Yves

Hi SK,

membership dues make sense to me according to the prices you get but my opinion is from an amateur point of view and obviously I can't get such prices on my own.

Another good point to me is to get all the parts from the same supplier which is both handy and that may cut multiple shipping costs.

One drawback for me is that I live in France and I need to add custom fees to this as other non US residents would (anyway I must admit that France is a better wine producer than pickup making parts... and I've already had to order from the US or UK)

What about the intended fee for 'General' (C) membership?

Yves.

1/19/2003 11:32 PM
SK	There is no fee for "C"/general membership. If enough people join as members to float it reasonably well, then more items would move into the bulk purchased category and the prices could be lowered, especially for the B/C breaks; probably slight decrease for the A break as most items are at, or close to, at cost now... The problem with C being "general retail" is that it needs to be competitive and not seriously undercut other suppliers (some are the same suppliers I/we use). Perhaps C will become "registered member" with no fees and a retail category listed.. That would be dependent on sales/membership. The import fees are certainly an issue if you have a local supplier. I would hope if it were at least competitive after fees most would choose to support the association. It's not "one stop" yet, but it's getting closer....

1/19/2003 11:32 PM

There is no fee for "C"/general membership. If enough people join as members to float it reasonably well, then more items would move into the bulk purchased category and the prices could be lowered, especially for the B/C breaks; probably slight decrease for the A break as most items are at, or close to, at cost now... The problem with C being "general retail" is that it needs to be competitive and not seriously undercut other suppliers (some are the same suppliers I/we use). Perhaps C will become "registered member" with no fees and a retail category listed.. That would be dependent on sales/membership.
The import fees are certainly an issue if you have a local supplier. I would hope if it were at least competitive after fees most would choose to support the association. It's not "one stop" yet, but it's getting closer....

1/20/2003 4:34 AM
David Root	Haven't been around for a while, this is I think something that the time is right for. I, like Steven and Wolfe and a couple others have been working this kind of co-op buying deal for a few of us, but to roll it out into this forum makes sense. I'm willing to support it and can even offer a few items into it which are not on Steven's list. I think the three classes of membership make sense. although I'm not sure the membership rates do. If you include insurance as well as shipping costs, though, they're not unreasonable. This is Steven's baby and if he's willing to head it up, I'm willing to take on some administrative duties too. Count me in. If this is to be an international effort, and I support that as outside the US, Canada and the UK it can be very difficult for aspiring winders to source components, then it should say so in the name of the organization. How about Pickup makers International Co-Op (PICO-OP)? Just a thought.

1/20/2003 4:34 AM

David Root

Haven't been around for a while, this is I think something that the time is right for. I, like Steven and Wolfe and a couple others have been working this kind of co-op buying deal for a few of us, but to roll it out into this forum makes sense. I'm willing to support it and can even offer a few items into it which are not on Steven's list.
I think the three classes of membership make sense. although I'm not sure the membership rates do.
If you include insurance as well as shipping costs, though, they're not unreasonable.

This is Steven's baby and if he's willing to head it up, I'm willing to take on some administrative duties too. Count me in.

If this is to be an international effort, and I support that as outside the US, Canada and the UK it can be very difficult for aspiring winders to source components, then it should say so in the name of the organization. How about Pickup makers International Co-Op (PICO-OP)? Just a thought.

1/20/2003 8:57 AM
Andy	Steven, As I have said before I would generally welcome some sort of Association, however I do have some questions in no particular order: Is it the intention of the Association to "break even" with its' funds or is it to make a profit? It would seem that you intend to use the subscriptions to purchase, in bulk, pickup components? Surely there would be running costs involved in such an Association, would it therefore be prudent to allocate some portion of the fees to overheads? Apart from this forum how would you propose to attract members? It looks as though a set of humbucker components would "retail" to general members at around $24.00 is this correct? Presumably the profit would be invested in further purhases? With the additional costs of shipping overseas from the States, I assume that the focus will be on US sales/membership, with those from overseas having to accept that items will cost a little more? (In the light of our recent Wolfe collective purchase, the items cost me 30% more in the UK after duty and taxes thus 10 of your humbucker sets would cost roughly $300 in the UK) This isn't a complaint just needs to be made clear. Apart from component availability what other advantages would accrue to members, if any? Andy

1/20/2003 8:57 AM

Andy

Steven,

As I have said before I would generally welcome some sort of Association, however I do have some questions in no particular order:

Is it the intention of the Association to "break even" with its' funds or is it to make a profit?

It would seem that you intend to use the subscriptions to purchase, in bulk, pickup components?

Surely there would be running costs involved in such an Association, would it therefore be prudent to allocate some portion of the fees to overheads?

Apart from this forum how would you propose to attract members?

It looks as though a set of humbucker components would "retail" to general members at around $24.00 is this correct? Presumably the profit would be invested in further purhases?

With the additional costs of shipping overseas from the States, I assume that the focus will be on US sales/membership, with those from overseas having to accept that items will cost a little more? (In the light of our recent Wolfe collective purchase, the items cost me 30% more in the UK after duty and taxes thus 10 of your humbucker sets would cost roughly $300 in the UK)

This isn't a complaint just needs to be made clear.

Apart from component availability what other advantages would accrue to members, if any?

Andy

1/20/2003 2:08 PM
SK	The idea is that full members provide no profit other than dues in order to make more purchases. B/C members would provide for the running costs. Profits would then be used to purchase more items in bulk, or in larger quantities and thereby lower the prices further. I'm sure it will involve time/space/ effort on my part as a minimum. Initially at least, I will forego any administrative costs in order to get this up and running. Once everything is starting to settle out and progress, I will start tracking down potential members(and request others to do the same), and put up a website (that WILL have costs) Before putting up the formal website I will probably put up web pages not associated with my personal site. As for your price estimates, for general retail it would cost aprox $17.00 for a complete humbucker assembly without slugs or magnet wire. for a member the cost would be aproximately $7.00. (there is no "general member" at this point) The sales would be international, but it's up to you to decide if it's worthwhile to purchase. I am basing the pricing upon what is currently readily availiable to me here... At $7.00 the profit is nill, probably easily eaten up by shipping. At 17.00 there is obviously profit which will go to making more bulk purchases and lowering costs/prices further. This is not a static list, nor will it be up to me alone to decide what gets purchased in bulk with the money...I am also willing(eventually) to establish a "branch" in europe or wherever to basicly do the same thing there with the same funds.... I think the advantage is/will be one stop availiability, and "bulk" prices without having to make bulk purchases. I think the reality of it is that there won't be much "retail" selling and the profits will be minimal/negligible...Additionally, I think some of the information sharing/techniques/tricks should become "member information" in that we would share, thru a seperate forum or web pages, only with other members....maybe not... I am talking about buying in qtty's of 1000's of each item in order to get the prices down. I think 250 annually would be more than offset in the long run. Initially, prices are not as low as they should end up. I cannot afford to buy in those kinds of qtty's regularly, certainly not all of the items needed. "I" would pay 250 in order to only buy what I need when I need it and still get the large purchase pricing. The "break even point" is really quite low...Right now prices in the bulk category often reflect prices for purchases in the 1000's and which are "my share" of group purchases arranged outside and previously or for items I've had to spend 100's on in order to get acceptable prices figuring "eventually" I'll use it all....We've all been there, or are there, where you have 1000's of dollars of inventory sitting stagnant waiting to be eventually used. Usually it's too much of one item, and running out of another... Could this get to be too big for me to run out of my shop for free? Yes, but that would be a good thing and we'll worry about it then.... At that point, profits/membership etc should make it worth funding and doable without additional costs (hopefully lowering costs yet further..)

1/20/2003 2:08 PM

The idea is that full members provide no profit other than dues in order to make more purchases. B/C members would provide for the running costs. Profits would then be used to purchase more items in bulk, or in larger quantities and thereby lower the prices further. I'm sure it will involve time/space/ effort on my part as a minimum. Initially at least, I will forego any administrative costs in order to get this up and running.
Once everything is starting to settle out and progress, I will start tracking down potential members(and request others to do the same), and put up a website (that WILL have costs) Before putting up the formal website I will probably put up web pages not associated with my personal site.
As for your price estimates, for general retail it would cost aprox $17.00 for a complete humbucker assembly without slugs or magnet wire. for a member the cost would be aproximately $7.00. (there is no "general member" at this point) The sales would be international, but it's up to you to decide if it's worthwhile to purchase. I am basing the pricing upon what is currently readily availiable to me here... At $7.00 the profit is nill, probably easily eaten up by shipping. At 17.00 there is obviously profit which will go to making more bulk purchases and lowering costs/prices further. This is not a static list, nor will it be up to me alone to decide what gets purchased in bulk with the money...I am also willing(eventually) to establish a "branch" in europe or wherever to basicly do the same thing there with the same funds....
I think the advantage is/will be one stop availiability, and "bulk" prices without having to make bulk purchases. I think the reality of it is that there won't be much "retail" selling and the profits will be minimal/negligible...Additionally, I think some of the information sharing/techniques/tricks should become "member information" in that we would share, thru a seperate forum or web pages, only with other members....maybe not...
I am talking about buying in qtty's of 1000's of each item in order to get the prices down. I think 250 annually would be more than offset in the long run. Initially, prices are not as low as they should end up. I cannot afford to buy in those kinds of qtty's regularly, certainly not all of the items needed. "I" would pay 250 in order to only buy what I need when I need it and still get the large purchase pricing. The "break even point" is really quite low...Right now prices in the bulk category often reflect prices for purchases in the 1000's and which are "my share" of group purchases arranged outside and previously or for items I've had to spend 100's on in order to get acceptable prices figuring "eventually" I'll use it all....We've all been there, or are there, where you have 1000's of dollars of inventory sitting stagnant waiting to be eventually used. Usually it's too much of one item, and running out of another...
Could this get to be too big for me to run out of my shop for free? Yes, but that would be a good thing and we'll worry about it then.... At that point, profits/membership etc should make it worth funding and doable without additional costs (hopefully lowering costs yet further..)

1/20/2003 7:34 PM
Jason Lollar	I can tell you because I have been selling parts for a few years that taking orders, keeping track of who ordered what, keeping the appropriate inventory on hand and tracking qty, boxing shipping and answering questions takes a lot of time. You will spend hours doing it and you will have to get paid unless you want to work two jobs.

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