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Vintage threads from the first ten years

PRS HB to Kent Armstron P90

11/2/2002 1:02 AM
Bjorn	PRS HB to Kent Armstron P90 I bought a pair of Kent Armstrong HB P90 replacements for my PRS SC. I thought the stock #7 PRS PU sucked. I got them home without any problems and put them in. Easily done. They measured 8.4 and 9.1 kOhms. Did they sound as P90’ies – No I don’t think so, although the reviews have been quite nice. I took the cover of the see what they looked like. Well, it was a HB base plate and two Alnico (V?) magnets (P90 arrangement). In the middle there was the usual HB bobbin and screws with some iron in the bottom (in contact with teh magnets). The PU was essentially an over-wound single HB bobbin, and sounded so. Nothing similar to a real P90 in sound. Good spare parts though. I got some pics if anyone would be interested. Bjorn

11/2/2002 1:02 AM

Bjorn

PRS HB to Kent Armstron P90

I bought a pair of Kent Armstrong HB P90 replacements for my PRS SC.
I thought the stock #7 PRS PU sucked.
I got them home without any problems and put them in. Easily done. They measured 8.4 and 9.1 kOhms.

Did they sound as P90’ies – No I don’t think so, although the reviews have been quite nice.

I took the cover of the see what they looked like.
Well, it was a HB base plate and two Alnico (V?) magnets (P90 arrangement). In the middle there was the usual HB bobbin and screws with some iron in the bottom (in contact with teh magnets).
The PU was essentially an over-wound single HB bobbin, and sounded so.

Nothing similar to a real P90 in sound. Good spare parts though.

I got some pics if anyone would be interested.

Bjorn

11/2/2002 8:16 AM
Andy	Bjorn, This is exactly what Wolfe and I have been telling you guys for ages. You cannot get a real P90 into a humbucker size. Andy

11/2/2002 10:12 AM
WolfeMacleod	Bjorn Exactly what Andy said... Because of the size limitations of a humbucker-sized cover, which must fit in a humbucker sized mounting ring, no "P-90" replacement for HB THAT FITS IN A HB MOUNTING RING will ever sound like a P-90....the coil is just too constrained! Gibson P-94 for example, is basically the same size as a Tele bridge pickup, stuck on a HB style frame. Different shape, different sound. I have been working on a great way to mount authentic P-90 "guts" into a humbucker rout by changing the way it mounts. So far, results have been wildly successfull. Oh...and yes, I'm sure we'd all love to see those pics! Wolfe

11/2/2002 10:12 AM

WolfeMacleod

Bjorn
Exactly what Andy said...
Because of the size limitations of a humbucker-sized cover, which must fit in a humbucker sized mounting ring, no "P-90" replacement for HB **THAT FITS IN A HB MOUNTING RING** will ever sound like a P-90....the coil is just too constrained!
Gibson P-94 for example, is basically the same size as a Tele bridge pickup, stuck on a HB style frame. Different shape, different sound.
I have been working on a great way to mount authentic P-90 "guts" into a humbucker rout by changing the way it mounts. So far, results have been wildly successfull.

Oh...and yes, I'm sure we'd all love to see those pics!

Wolfe

11/2/2002 2:19 PM

MKB

quote:
"I have been working on a great way to mount authentic P-90 "guts" into a humbucker rout by changing the way it mounts. So far, results have been wildly successfull."

Two questions about your method; does it require a custom mounting ring and cover? And any increase in a standard humbucking rout necessary (like on a Les Paul)?

I'd love to see pics of the Ken Armstrong, and yours!

11/2/2002 5:15 PM
Bjorn	First of all I want to say that other PU:s from Kent Armstrong have all been very good (HB and Strat). I’ve had several and I liked them all. Concerning the measures HB and P90 I do think it is possible to make a P90 fitting into a HB-size cavity. If you look at an original P90, the wire inside the bobbin (short side to side) is about the same size as a HB <------>. The small difference in this regard should not be a problem to fit in – even if this means that the HB/P90 would be a couple of mm less wide on the short sides <------>. It is hard to believe that this small correction should have a major impact on the sound. You people here are the experts but I think the reason that the Kent Armstrong HB/P90 does not sound as a P90 is that the winding isn’t wide enough on the long sides, or isn’t “broad” or “fat” enough. It is hard to explain in words but the P90 is more broad and fat than the HB or a Strat PU for that matter. In my opinion, the Kent Armstrong HB/P90 physically is more related to an over wound HB than to a P90, and sounds so as well. To make the winding broad enough should not be a problem since there is lots of room here. But – I don’t think the HB bobbin can give the necessary support (up- and downwards). Rather a P90 bobbin that is less wide on the sides and inside (<------>) should do the trick. I hope you understand what I mean. If I only had my own gear I’d have it ready tomorrow… Wolfe – check your mail, I hope I did not block your mail server (approx 2.5 Mb). Bjorn

11/2/2002 5:15 PM

Bjorn

First of all I want to say that other PU:s from Kent Armstrong have all been very good (HB and Strat). I’ve had several and I liked them all.

Concerning the measures HB and P90 I do think it is possible to make a P90 fitting into a HB-size cavity.
If you look at an original P90, the wire inside the bobbin (short side to side) is about the same size as a HB <------>.
The small difference in this regard should not be a problem to fit in – even if this means that the HB/P90 would be a couple of mm less wide on the short sides <------>.
It is hard to believe that this small correction should have a major impact on the sound.

You people here are the experts but I think the reason that the Kent Armstrong HB/P90 does not sound as a P90 is that the winding isn’t wide enough on the long sides, or isn’t “broad” or “fat” enough. It is hard to explain in words but the P90 is more broad and fat than the HB or a Strat PU for that matter.
In my opinion, the Kent Armstrong HB/P90 physically is more related to an over wound HB than to a P90, and sounds so as well.

To make the winding broad enough should not be a problem since there is lots of room here.
But – I don’t think the HB bobbin can give the necessary support (up- and downwards). Rather a P90 bobbin that is less wide on the sides and inside (<------>) should do the trick.

I hope you understand what I mean. If I only had my own gear I’d have it ready tomorrow… :-)

Wolfe – check your mail, I hope I did not block your mail server (approx 2.5 Mb).

Bjorn

11/2/2002 9:58 PM
WolfeMacleod	MKB Yes, I'm making the custom covers by hand. So far, results are good. Because of archtops, flattops, and stuff, I need to make several different types of rings/covers, but they all work well so far. Typical humbucker routes will allow a P-90 bobbin to slip inside. Sometimes, on tighter (smaller) routes, I must clip off the corners of the bobbins, but it still allows for the traditional coil size and shape. I originally came up with this dea because I was winding P-90's "blind" for a long time...no P-90 routed guitar! So I had to come up with a way to mount a P-90 in my Les Paul! I quickly became a P-90 advocate after hearing the first one I got mounted...I love them! Wolfe

11/2/2002 9:58 PM

WolfeMacleod

MKB
Yes, I'm making the custom covers by hand. So far, results are good. Because of archtops, flattops, and stuff, I need to make several different types of rings/covers, but they all work well so far.
Typical humbucker routes will allow a P-90 bobbin to slip inside. Sometimes, on tighter (smaller) routes, I must clip off the corners of the bobbins, but it still allows for the traditional coil size and shape.
I originally came up with this dea because I was winding P-90's "blind" for a long time...no P-90 routed guitar! So I had to come up with a way to mount a P-90 in my Les Paul! I quickly became a P-90 advocate after hearing the first one I got mounted...I love them!

Wolfe

11/3/2002 2:44 AM
azul	P-90's are my favorite pu . I think so much more can be done with the shape & options . With soooooo many strat pups options out there it's high time someone started making "different" P-90 as well as classic options ... For every humbucker that seymour sells I bet something can be sone for the p-90 bar . Azul

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