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More creeping wire syndrome

10/12/2002 9:36 PM
WolfeMacleod	More creeping wire syndrome ARGH! I'm starting to get quite infuriated with this.... As mentioned awhile back, I have "creeping wire syndrome" which is..when I wind, my wire "creeps" towards the center of the bobbin at "dead stop" position of the throw. I'm perfectly level. 90 degrees bobbin face. I thought I had this fixed before, when Tony sent me some angle diagrams... now that we've moved, it's happening again. Any ideas? Wolfe

10/12/2002 9:36 PM

WolfeMacleod

More creeping wire syndrome

ARGH! I'm starting to get quite infuriated with this....
As mentioned awhile back, I have "creeping wire syndrome" which is..when I wind, my wire "creeps" towards the center of the bobbin at "dead stop" position of the throw.
I'm perfectly level. 90 degrees bobbin face.

I thought I had this fixed before, when Tony sent me some angle diagrams...
now that we've moved, it's happening again.

Any ideas?

Wolfe

10/13/2002 7:33 AM
Andy	Wolfe, Just a few thoughts, you've probably already checked or considered them but here goes; If you wind at right angles, in the rest or point of least tension the wire will fall back to the mean (in you case the centre), at least until it forms a cone/mound and falls another way - so is tension constant and being maintained properly? If you're using a level wind does it emphasise a middle position? Laterally - I used to have a similar problem, again when I moved, the cause ........ lighting! When winding the coil I was lighting from one side and the coil was partly in shadow leading me to think the coil was being wound square, but once finished it was completely mis-shaped - worked fine but looked awful. Additional spot-lights solved the problem immediately! Finally, but unlikely, check the bobbin mount - is the bobbin at right angles to the direction of wind? Just a little off and the coil profile will cease to be rectangular and become mis-shapen, however not normally in the way you describe. Best Andy

10/13/2002 7:33 AM

Andy

Wolfe,

Just a few thoughts, you've probably already checked or considered them but here goes;

If you wind at right angles, in the rest or point of least tension the wire will fall back to the mean (in you case the centre), at least until it forms a cone/mound and falls another way - so is tension constant and being maintained properly?

If you're using a level wind does it emphasise a middle position?

Laterally - I used to have a similar problem, again when I moved, the cause ........ lighting! When winding the coil I was lighting from one side and the coil was partly in shadow leading me to think the coil was being wound square, but once finished it was completely mis-shaped - worked fine but looked awful. Additional spot-lights solved the problem immediately!

Finally, but unlikely, check the bobbin mount - is the bobbin at right angles to the direction of wind? Just a little off and the coil profile will cease to be rectangular and become mis-shapen, however not normally in the way you describe.

Best Andy

10/13/2002 9:02 AM
WolfeMacleod	Andy Tension is constant. I wind at right angles. My wire comes straight up through a hole in the table, through the felt-tensioner, and onto the bobbin. The wire path is as straight to the bobbin as I can make it. It's as if...someone is pushing my tensioner towards the centre of the coil...but I know it's not moving, since the tensioner is secured in place. I checked the bobbin mount also. It's about as close to 90 degrees as I can get it with a bubble-level. This only happens occasionally...not every time. It seems to happen mostly on Tele bridge pickups, rarely on strats (except today!), and almost never on humbucker coils (in fact, never that I recall) It's crazy, I tell you! WOlfe

10/13/2002 9:02 AM

WolfeMacleod

Andy
Tension is constant. I wind at right angles.
My wire comes straight up through a hole in the table, through the felt-tensioner, and onto the bobbin. The wire path is as straight to the bobbin as I can make it.
It's as if...someone is pushing my tensioner towards the centre of the coil...but I know it's not moving, since the tensioner is secured in place.
I checked the bobbin mount also. It's about as close to 90 degrees as I can get it with a bubble-level.
This only happens occasionally...not every time. It seems to happen mostly on Tele bridge pickups, rarely on strats (except today!), and almost never on humbucker coils (in fact, never that I recall)
It's crazy, I tell you!

WOlfe

10/13/2002 9:43 AM
Andy	Good at last you've identified those bobbins that give you most trouble. Next time it happens, stop and take the pup apart, I know its a pain! Why? well to check that the two outer-most poles are vertical, I suffered something similar when a whole batch of bobbins where just leaning inwards, in fact one was leaning in at the top and the other end was leaning out. They only need to be a fraction out and you'll never get parallel sides. If you're sure its not tension, not the winder, not lighting, not the mount then it can only be the bobbin itself. Andy

10/13/2002 9:43 AM

Andy

Good at last you've identified those bobbins that give you most trouble.

Next time it happens, stop and take the pup apart, I know its a pain!

Why? well to check that the two outer-most poles are vertical, I suffered something similar when a whole batch of bobbins where just leaning inwards, in fact one was leaning in at the top and the other end was leaning out. They only need to be a fraction out and you'll never get parallel sides.

If you're sure its not tension, not the winder, not lighting, not the mount then it can only be the bobbin itself.

Andy

10/13/2002 11:51 AM
Gunno	Wolfe , I was thinking about this for a while , when I saw that Andy had come to the same conclusion. Yes Andy , I agree with you , it must be the bobbin , and probably that the two outer-most poles are the main problem. Wolfe , if it were the winder it probably would happen every time you wind , not just occasionally. And maybe it's harder to get the angles right in a Tele bridge pickups (don't know myself , never done a Tele bridge pickup , only the Tele neck pickups ). Personally I think , getting the bobbins right is the most difficult part in making pickups. So I follow Jason Lollars advice to be extra , extra careful when I make them. Plastic bobbins must be a relief in that sense. Wolfe , if it's not the bobbin , man , you're HAUNTED! WARNING ! - this is just opinions from an amateur winder from Sweden , Wolfe and Andy you're the pro's. Gunno

10/13/2002 11:51 AM

Gunno

Wolfe ,
I was thinking about this for a while , when I saw that Andy had come to the same conclusion.
Yes Andy , I agree with you , it must be the bobbin , and probably that the two outer-most poles are the main problem.

Wolfe , if it were the winder it probably would happen every time you wind , not just occasionally.
And maybe it's harder to get the angles right in a Tele bridge pickups (don't know myself , never done a Tele bridge pickup , only the Tele neck pickups ).

Personally I think , getting the bobbins right is the most difficult part in making pickups.
So I follow Jason Lollars advice to be extra , extra careful when I make them.
Plastic bobbins must be a relief in that sense.

Wolfe , if it's not the bobbin , man , you're HAUNTED!
WARNING ! - this is just opinions from an amateur winder from Sweden , Wolfe and Andy you're the pro's.

Gunno

10/13/2002 2:00 PM
Tony @Mastertone Pickups	Wolfe I think this is your answer... Andy's nailed it. The very reason HB's don't do it is they are perfectly square every time as they are machine made.... In regard to being extra careful when making your upper and lower bobbin plates.... punch or drill the holes for both plates at the same time stacked on top of one another. Now I am not assuming you don't do this already but I thought it might be relevant for the other guys.. if you punch/drill both plates at the same time you can't possibly $%#& up.... Tone

10/13/2002 2:00 PM

Tony @Mastertone Pickups

Wolfe I think this is your answer... Andy's nailed it. The very reason HB's don't do it is they are perfectly square every time as they are machine made....

In regard to being extra careful when making your upper and lower bobbin plates.... punch or drill the holes for both plates at the same time stacked on top of one another. Now I am not assuming you don't do this already but I thought it might be relevant for the other guys.. if you punch/drill both plates at the same time you can't possibly $%#& up....

Tone

10/13/2002 2:27 PM
Tony @Mastertone Pickups	Wolfe If this is the problem... you can use guide pins in your winding jigs to stop this happening... Tone

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