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Re: Why are cheap pickups rubbish?

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9/5/2002 7:29 AM

Re: Why are cheap pickups rubbish?

To widen the discussion - IMO, is doesn't follow that expensive pickups are better.

I've seen and repaired some very costly pickups by leading makers which are actually far worse than the 3 dollars stuff from Korea/Taiwan/India.

At least cheap Far eastern pickups don't purport to be anything other than not expensive.

One leading maker - no names - gives the impression, on one of his range of pickups, that they are made in the States and that he checks everyone, balls, the coils are wound in India and the whole pickup shipped in component form to the States, where it is assembled. He then charges $100 plus for a pickup which really costs no more than just 3 or 4 dollars, and it sounds crap!!

But to balance it he does make a few really good pickups as well.

Andy

9/5/2002 8:57 AM

I completely agree with you about cheap pickups sounding like crap. i have some stock pickups in my Danelectro DC3 that just totally sound one dimensional and lifeless. They're epoxied too, so nothing can be done except to shit can them and replace them.
In my Strat, I have some cheap ass pickups that I had Wolfe and Jason rewind, and now they sound great! Wolfe did the neck and middle pickups and Jason the bridge, and all pickups sound VERY good now. So, I almost think the scatterwinding had most of the effect, but then also, I had them wire the pickups to my desired sound too. So that just goes to show you that both of those guys have a good ear and know their craft well.
Greg Simon

9/5/2002 12:24 PM

Tony@Mastertone

Guys

Lets look at this from a manufacturers point of view...

Company B approaches company A to wind pickups for them... cost limit is set at $1.50 max by company B.

What I am going to do...

1. Buy the cheapest wire possible that 'will do the job', just... When you say wire is wire... it isn't, it depends on the accuracy of the manufacturing process and the quality of the insulation.

2. Buy the cheapest magnets...

3. Design a pickup that will give just enough output to be usable and not even consider tone because I am designing for a market and a guitar manufacturer that doesn't understand tone and usually doesn't care.

4. So now I have my components I am going to get the cheapest labour possible, ie India or Indonesia. They dont need to understand what a pickup is let alone what it does they are there to reload the machine when it finishes...

Its just a lot of little things...that build up into a nasty piece of equipment....

In regards to scatter winding, you get less of a capacitance build up which makes the pickup more efficient and more natural sounding where as machine winding tends to choke the tone...

Now guitars and tone... its a lot like a racing car or any machine that needs to do a job to the best of its ability... Its no good having a racing car with a carby with scatter wound solenoids (hehe) that is capable of 300mph when the tyres have no tread and the suspension is shot....

Its all a balance.... you know how people like SRV got great sounds etc... its because the guitars those guys used and there was usually only a couple of them were setup, adjusted, modified and loved for many years by people who knew their shit... Would you go buy an Indy car off the manufacturers shelf and expect it to win straight up... no. You need to get the thing tweaked and setup properly by experts in that feild and it also helps to have a great driver/(guitar player)...

Anyway..

Tone

9/5/2002 4:12 PM

The materials may not be the same.
Bear in mind that the gauge of wire will determine how careful you have to be about breakage and the quality of winding equipment you need to have and maintain. I *suppose* it is possible for a big jobber to crank out pickups with #42 but I have my doubts as to whether they want to undertake that.

Use of a thicker gauge will also mean fewer turns possible on a similar-sized bobbin. Bobbins are another area where cheap and "pro" pickups can differ. A number of cheap SC pickups I've seen will have plastic in between the polepiece and the coil, so that the polepiece can be inserted on prewound bobbins. It's not the plastic so much as the distance that creates between the polepiece and the coil.

Finally, I think you need to remember that buying a $119 import not only may get you cheap pickups but a guitar that is not set up properly. I can't begin to count the number of postings on Ampage and elsewhere from people who hated the way their pickups sounded and then fell in love with them once they were adjusted properly. $119 retail is unlikely to get you that quality of post-production adjustment each and every time.

9/5/2002 5:47 PM

I'm pretty certain most of the pickups are wound w/ 42. Also, "hand wound" as the old fender pickups are described to be would more accurately be described as "hand guided" and perhaps somewhat "hand tensioned". I do agree w/ what you said, potting is more important depending upon how it's wound (I can hand scatterwind a pickup that does not need potted for most uses just fine) And a good setup does involve setting up the pickups. In fact, Pickup adjustments can have a HUGE effect on the tonality of a guitar.

9/9/2002 9:41 AM
Sweetfinger	In many cases, it isn't the pickups that sound so crappy, but that the guitars come with 500K pots where there should be 250K. I agree, though that perfect machine wound coils sound too "even" and lifeless.

9/9/2002 8:11 PM
gus	The ones I looked at and measured had less resistance and inductance. I believe it is as simple as saving money by using less wire. Better poles and magnets might help. Funny thing with the some cheap pickups like on the import low end fenders/squiers(sp) they seem not to loss as much high end when you turn down the volume control. gus

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