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Abuse of freedom

4/9/2003 7:05 AM
Kursad K	Abuse of freedom There is one thing that Qutb should be given credit for. When people are free they abuse their freedom. Why is "I have seen your mother in Turkish TV" a swear in Syria? Because just like Americans, we abuse our freedom too. Heck this is a free country and people are free to do whatever they want. Including the shitty and the wicked. That's "televole culture" as some have started to call it. Referring to a TV program called "Televole". What about the ganstas and the brothers and the R&B songs that girls shake their asses all day long in MTV? Seems like that was what Islamic fundamentalists hated most and just like Qutb predicted that we would, we have a similar problem. Abuse of freedom, we could call it, instead of "televole culture", as a more general name. How many schools are there in USA, where chilren carry guns? The solution? Discuss! Kursad

4/9/2003 7:05 AM

Kursad K

Abuse of freedom

There is one thing that Qutb should be given credit for. When people are free they abuse their freedom. Why is "I have seen your mother in Turkish TV" a swear in Syria? Because just like Americans, we abuse our freedom too. Heck this is a free country and people are free to do whatever they want. Including the shitty and the wicked.
That's "televole culture" as some have started to call it. Referring to a TV program called "Televole".

What about the ganstas and the brothers and the R&B songs that girls shake their asses all day long in MTV? Seems like that was what Islamic fundamentalists hated most and just like Qutb predicted that we would, we have a similar problem. Abuse of freedom, we could call it, instead of "televole culture", as a more general name.

How many schools are there in USA, where chilren carry guns?

The solution?

Discuss!

Kursad

4/9/2003 6:31 PM

stephen conner

quote:
"The solution?"

I agree it does seem that there are a lot of stupid, irresponsible people on the planet and that it seems very dangerous to give them freedom to do whatever they want. However, I don't believe that cutting their body parts off whenever they do things you don't like is a valid answer.

I believe that the solution is education. Children need to be brought up to think about what they're doing and to feel responsibility towards themselves, their society and their home planet. They will grow up into reasonable adults that don't need governed by force. (and don't get hoodwinked by governmemts promising to cut taxes and raise spending either)

Unfortunately they will only get brought up like that if their parents weren't stupid to start with. Hence we have a vicious circle. Lord knows what we can do about it.

Steve C.

4/9/2003 11:22 PM

Kursad K

quote:
"I agree it does seem that there are a lot of stupid, irresponsible people on the planet and that it seems very dangerous to give them freedom to do whatever they want. However, I don't believe that cutting their body parts off whenever they do things you don't like is a valid answer."

Obviously. It's an age old, stupid answer.

[QUOTE]I believe that the solution is education. Children need to be brought up to think about what they're doing and to feel responsibility towards themselves, their society and their home planet. They will grow up into reasonable adults that don't need governed by force. (and don't get hoodwinked by governmemts promising to cut taxes and raise spending either)
[/QUOTE]

Everyone deserves a good education. Do you think that everyone in US gets that? In Turkey the answer is no.

Kursad

4/10/2003 12:32 AM

Mark Ingram

quote:
"Everyone deserves a good education. Do you think that everyone in US gets that?"

If you are referring to the academic-type education that teaches the student to read, write, do long division without a calculator, etc, the answer is yes. Or at least they have the opportunity to get an education. Everyone who owns real estate in the U.S. pays taxes to fund public education.

On the other hand, if you are referring to the type of education that teaches people to value their fellow human and to not kill them, etc, then the obvious answer is 'no'. Part of the problem is that this type of education, usually referred to as morals or values education, is barred from being taught in public schools because the majority of the North American value system comes from the Judeo-Christian tradition (see seperation of Church and state). Another huge part of the problem is that parents, the traditional (and most effective) communicators of a child's value system, are often too busy to communicate these values to their children. And that situation is made worse by the fact that many adults in North America have questioned their own faith to the point that they don't really believe any more in either the tenets of the faith or the values they were raised with.

Mark

4/9/2003 9:05 PM
LFOscalator	I think you are confusing a few things. To my knowledge it is illegal in the US to 1) enage in actual gang violence, and 2) bring illegal weapons into schools. It's not an issue of freedom. These things are not allowed here and the purpetrators of these crimes are usually prosecuted when caught. On the other hand, if a few girls shake their asses on TV, then big deal. Who does it hurt? Nobody to my knowledge. What's wrong Kursad, don't you like to have a little fun? LFO

4/9/2003 9:05 PM

LFOscalator

I think you are confusing a few things.

To my knowledge it is illegal in the US to 1) enage in actual gang violence, and 2) bring illegal weapons into schools. It's not an issue of freedom. These things are not allowed here and the purpetrators of these crimes are usually prosecuted when caught.

On the other hand, if a few girls shake their asses on TV, then big deal. Who does it hurt? Nobody to my knowledge. What's wrong Kursad, don't you like to have a little fun?

LFO

4/9/2003 11:19 PM
Kursad K	[QUOTE]On the other hand, if a few girls shake their asses on TV, then big deal. Who does it hurt? Nobody to my knowledge. What's wrong Kursad, don't you like to have a little fun? [/QUOTE] Particular cases, of course cannot be considered to be a problem. But in the larger scale, if the average behavior of the society changes for the bad, then it might be. I wonder why these kids think that they need to bring guns to the school. Kursad

4/9/2003 11:19 PM

Kursad K

[QUOTE]On the other hand, if a few girls shake their asses on TV, then big deal. Who does it hurt? Nobody to my knowledge. What's wrong Kursad, don't you like to have a little fun?
[/QUOTE]

Particular cases, of course cannot be considered to be a problem. But in the larger scale, if the average behavior of the society changes for the bad, then it might be.
I wonder why these kids think that they need to bring guns to the school.

Kursad

4/10/2003 12:39 AM
USA War Man	Kursad, I really don't subscribe to the theory that freedom can be abused. Rather, it's authoritarianism that is abused. If the government decides it wants to restrict reasonable freedom, then society is abused IMO. Regarding guns, students are not "free" to bring guns to school. It's strictly against the law to do this. They will be arrested immediately if they are discovered. Bringing a gun to school would go beyond a reasonable freedom. Some kids will still bring guns, usually for protection. If a rival gang is threatening another student's life, he may feel compelled to take a gun to school to save his life. I'm not saying I agree with this mindset, but acknowledge that it's there. I would like to point out that in the US, you can't take a gun to work either. In some Islamic countries, however, bringing an AK47 to work is considered OK in some areas. I had a friend who worked for an oil company in the mideast and he claimed you could bring weapons to work as long as you checked them in at the door. You were given your weapons back when you left. To the average US citizen, this practice would be considered barbaric and dangerous. Bottom line is "different strokes for different folks." We do things differently here in the US and that is our right. If an Islamic terrorist decides to fly an airliner into one of our buildings because they don't like the fact that some girl showed her ass on an American TV station, then they need to turn the channel and chill out. LFO

4/10/2003 12:39 AM

USA War Man

Kursad, I really don't subscribe to the theory that freedom can be abused. Rather, it's authoritarianism that is abused. If the government decides it wants to restrict reasonable freedom, then society is abused IMO.

Regarding guns, students are not "free" to bring guns to school. It's strictly against the law to do this. They will be arrested immediately if they are discovered. Bringing a gun to school would go beyond a reasonable freedom.

Some kids will still bring guns, usually for protection. If a rival gang is threatening another student's life, he may feel compelled to take a gun to school to save his life. I'm not saying I agree with this mindset, but acknowledge that it's there.

I would like to point out that in the US, you can't take a gun to work either. In some Islamic countries, however, bringing an AK47 to work is considered OK in some areas. I had a friend who worked for an oil company in the mideast and he claimed you could bring weapons to work as long as you checked them in at the door. You were given your weapons back when you left. To the average US citizen, this practice would be considered barbaric and dangerous.

Bottom line is "different strokes for different folks." We do things differently here in the US and that is our right.

If an Islamic terrorist decides to fly an airliner into one of our buildings because they don't like the fact that some girl showed her ass on an American TV station, then they need to turn the channel and chill out.

LFO

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