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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: Our stupid leaders!!

4/2/2003 9:33 PM
Gil Ayan	Re: Our stupid leaders!! On 4/2/2003 8:43 PM, M Hewitt said: [QUOTE]Yeah,I know where you are coming from I'm with you. Read this: http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html[/QUOTE] You're smooth and slithery... Cool. Gil

4/2/2003 9:48 PM
Joe king	read this.... Whether you actually like George W. or not.... This has some interesting thoughts... First, an observation. Have you noticed a difference in the salute given by our military men and women as President Bush walks by? Most folks would not notice anything, but those of us who have served in the military see it right away. Next time, Watch: When President Bush leaves his helicopter or Air Force One, the honor guards salute and face him as he disembarks, then turn their faces towards him as he passes by. They continue to salute his back as he walks away. This kind of salute has not been seen in the previous eight years, though it is customary courtesy to the Commander-in-Chief. You see, soldiers aren't required to turn and face the President as they salute. They are not required to salute his back. They are only required to salute. They can remain face-forward the entire time. And that is what they did during the previous administration. Our soldiers were forced to obey his orders, but they were not forced to respect him. From their salutes, we can surmise that they did not. Why is such respect afforded to President Bush? He doesn't even know how to bite his lower lip and not get teary-eyed whenever he speaks! The following incident from Major General Van Antwerp may give us an insight. Gen. Antwerp is president of the Officers' Christian Fellowship. He lost nearly all his staff when the Pentagon was attacked Sept. 11. His executive officer LTC Brian Birdwell was badly burned and in the hospital when President Bush visited him. Our President spent time and prayed with Brian. As he was getting ready to leave, he went to the foot of Brian's bed and saluted. He held his salute until Brian was able to raise his burned and bandaged arm, ever so slowly, in return. The Commander-in-Chief almost never initiates a salute, except in the case of a Congressional Medal of Honor winner. The injured soldier did not have to return the salute. But he did, out of respect to his President ...- a Soldiers' President. Congressman JC Watts (R. Oklahoma) said, "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking," (My favorite quote of all time.) The nation and world learned some of what our last President did when nobody was looking. That President has been disbarred. The worst disgrace (other than imprisonment) to a lawyer. CNN will have a difficult time shining his or his wife's tarnished images. In this time of war and danger, I am so grateful to have a President whom the soldiers salute -- fully. On Special Report with Brit Hume, at the close of the show when they normally have some funny video clip, they showed President Bush and the First Lady on their way to Maine to leave for Camp David for the weekend. As the video starts, the First Lady is leading the way into the helicopter with the spaniel dog on the leash, and the president is right behind her with the Scotty on the leash. As the First Lady entered the chopper, the Marine at the gangway saluted and held his salute. The Scottie the president was walking decided it wanted to sit right when he got to the steps. The president pulled on its leash, but the stubborn Scottie persisted in sitting. The president bent down and scooped up the pooch and entered Marine One. After he entered, the Marine cut his salute and returned to the position of attention. Moments later the President reemerged from the helicopter and out onto the steps. The Marine was standing at attention, head and eyes straight ahead. The President leaned over and tapped him on the left arm. The startled Marine turned his body toward the President and received his returned salute! I was so impressed by this true act of respect for our military people by our President! He really does get it. Most any other person of his stature would have just continued his journey, disregarding the neglected return salute. Not George W. Bush. He is earning the respect of the military community, not expecting it -- as most have and would. President George W. Bush. The man who admitted to having a drinking problem in younger years, and whose happy-go- lucky lifestyle led him to mediocre grades in college and an ill-fated oil venture. Who mangled syntax, and whose speaking miss-steps became known as "Bushisms." He came within a hair's breadth of losing the election in November. Bush named Jesus Christ as Lord of his life on public TV. Not an Oblique reference to being "born-again" or having a "life change." He actually said the un-PC-like phrase, "Jesus Christ!" On September 11 he was thrust into a position only known by the likes of Roosevelt, Churchill, Lincoln, and Washington. The weight of the world was on his shoulders, and the responsibility of a generation was on his soul. So President George W. Bush walked to his seat at the front of the National Cathedral just three days after two of the most impressive symbols of American capitalism and prosperity virtually evaporated. When the history of this time is written, it will be acknowledged by friend and foe alike that President George W. Bush came of age in that cathedral and lifted a nation off its knees. In what was one of the most impressive exhibitions of self-control in presidential history, President George W. Bush was able to deliver his remarks without losing his resolve, focus, or confidence. God's hand, which guided him through that sliver-thin election, now rested fully on him. As he walked back to his seat, the camera angle was appropriate. He was virtually alone in the scene, alone in that massive place with God, just him and the Lord. Back at his seat, George H. Bush reached over and took his son's hand. In that gesture his father seemed to say, "I wish I could do this for you, son, but I can't. You have to do this on your own." President George W. Bush squeezed back and gave him a look of peace that said, "I don't have to do it alone, Dad. I've got Help."

4/2/2003 9:48 PM

Joe king

read this....

Whether you actually like George W. or not.... This has some interesting thoughts...

First, an observation. Have you noticed a difference in the salute given by our
military men and women as President Bush walks by? Most folks would not notice
anything, but those of us who have served in the military see it right away.

Next time, Watch: When President Bush leaves his helicopter or Air Force One,
the honor guards salute and face him as he disembarks, then turn their faces
towards him as he passes by. They continue to salute his back as he walks away.

This kind of salute has not been seen in the previous eight years, though it is
customary courtesy to the Commander-in-Chief. You see, soldiers aren't required
to turn and face the President as they salute. They are not required to salute
his back. They are only required to salute. They can remain face-forward the
entire time. And that is what they did during the previous administration. Our
soldiers were forced to obey his orders, but they were not forced to respect
him. From their salutes, we can surmise that they did not.

Why is such respect afforded to President Bush? He doesn't even know how to
bite his lower lip and not get teary-eyed whenever he speaks!

The following incident from Major General Van Antwerp may give us an insight.
Gen. Antwerp is president of the Officers' Christian Fellowship. He lost nearly
all his staff when the Pentagon was attacked Sept. 11. His executive officer
LTC Brian Birdwell was badly burned and in the hospital when President Bush
visited him. Our President spent time and prayed with Brian. As he was getting
ready to leave, he went to the foot of Brian's bed and saluted. He held his
salute until Brian was able to raise his burned and bandaged arm, ever so
slowly, in return.

The Commander-in-Chief almost never initiates a salute, except in the case of a
Congressional Medal of Honor winner. The injured soldier did not have to return
the salute. But he did, out of respect to his President ...- a Soldiers'
President.

Congressman JC Watts (R. Oklahoma) said, "Character is doing the right thing
when nobody is looking," (My favorite quote of all time.) The nation and world
learned some of what our last President did when nobody was looking. That
President has been disbarred. The worst disgrace (other than imprisonment) to a
lawyer. CNN will have a difficult time shining his or his wife's tarnished
images.

In this time of war and danger, I am so grateful to have a President whom the
soldiers salute -- fully.

On Special Report with Brit Hume, at the close of the show when they normally
have some funny video clip, they showed President Bush and the First Lady on
their way to Maine to leave for Camp David for the weekend. As the video
starts, the First Lady is leading the way into the helicopter with the spaniel
dog on the leash, and the president is right behind her with the Scotty on the
leash.

As the First Lady entered the chopper, the Marine at the gangway saluted and
held his salute. The Scottie the president was walking decided it wanted to sit
right when he got to the steps. The president pulled on its leash, but the
stubborn Scottie persisted in sitting. The president bent down and scooped up
the pooch and entered Marine One. After he entered, the Marine cut his salute
and returned to the position of attention. Moments later the President
reemerged from the helicopter and out onto the steps. The Marine was standing
at attention, head and eyes straight ahead. The President leaned over and
tapped him on the left arm. The startled Marine turned his body toward the
President and received his returned salute!

I was so impressed by this true act of respect for our military people by our
President! He really does get it. Most any other person of his stature would
have just continued his journey, disregarding the neglected return salute. Not
George W. Bush. He is earning the respect of the military community, not
expecting it -- as most have and would. President George W. Bush. The man who
admitted to having a drinking problem in younger years, and whose happy-go-
lucky lifestyle led him to mediocre grades in college and an ill-fated oil
venture. Who mangled syntax, and whose speaking miss-steps became known
as "Bushisms." He came within a hair's breadth of losing the election in
November.

Bush named Jesus Christ as Lord of his life on public TV. Not an Oblique
reference to being "born-again" or having a "life change." He actually said the
un-PC-like phrase, "Jesus Christ!"

On September 11 he was thrust into a position only known by the likes of
Roosevelt, Churchill, Lincoln, and Washington. The weight of the world was on
his shoulders, and the responsibility of a generation was on his soul. So
President George W. Bush walked to his seat at the front of the National
Cathedral just three days after two of the most impressive symbols of American
capitalism and prosperity virtually evaporated.

When the history of this time is written, it will be acknowledged by friend and
foe alike that President George W. Bush came of age in that cathedral and
lifted a nation off its knees. In what was one of the most impressive
exhibitions of self-control in presidential history, President George W. Bush
was able to deliver his remarks without losing his resolve, focus, or
confidence. God's hand, which guided him through that sliver-thin election, now
rested fully on him. As he walked back to his seat, the camera angle was
appropriate. He was virtually alone in the scene, alone in that massive place
with God, just him and the Lord.

Back at his seat, George H. Bush reached over and took his son's hand. In that
gesture his father seemed to say, "I wish I could do this for you, son, but I
can't. You have to do this on your own."

President George W. Bush squeezed back and gave him a look of peace that
said, "I don't have to do it alone, Dad. I've got Help."

4/2/2003 9:58 PM
anonymous	Always comes back to some Christian religious crap, doesn't it? He's a political leader, not a religious leader. His specific Christian references only serve to alienate the HUGE numbers of non-Christians he supposedly represents. It also makes it abundantly clear he is either: -doing/saying these things for effect, to gain support from Christians or... -he genuinely believes it, proving he's not the smartest tool in the shed Either way...........

4/2/2003 9:58 PM

anonymous

Always comes back to some Christian religious crap, doesn't it?

He's a political leader, not a religious leader. His specific Christian references only serve to alienate the HUGE numbers of non-Christians he supposedly represents.

It also makes it abundantly clear he is either:

-doing/saying these things for effect, to gain support from Christians or...

-he genuinely believes it, proving he's not the smartest tool in the shed

Either way...........

4/2/2003 10:54 PM
Mark Lavelle	So what you're saying is: he's a better actor than Ronald Reagan! You really ought to read that page about his "service" in the Air National Guard (http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html) before getting too choked up about what a great guy he is...

4/3/2003 1:58 AM
Mark Hammer	Hey....hey....HEY!!! You took the name of JC Watts (former Ottawa Rough Rider quarterback) in vain! I don't know where you got this passage from but it does very very little to change what I've been thinking these past few weeks, and that is that this administration has tragically drifted towards being more military-driven since 09/11. I don't blame them for doing so. I can only blame them for not noticing, and if they noticed not thinking much about it. If they salute Bush longer, it is because he has bought their affections. I wouldn't be quite so cynical as to chalk it up to manipulativeness, because quite clearly the military has had to rise to the occasion, so he has had something to compliment them about. But at the same time, he HAS had something to compliment them about, and has quite clearly upped the budget, upped their prestige, and certainly upped their bargaining power in the White House. Why wouldn't they love him to bits? If he went around doing for farmers what he's done for the military there wouldn't be a table anywhere in Iowa or Nebraska that wouldn't have a plate set for him. Have you ever noticed how during the last 8 months the only federal senior officials you ever see on TV are military/security advisors and strategists. Have you noticed that the "inner circle" of the White House is entirely military or ex-military people? What the hell happened to the secretary of the interior, of labour, of agriculture, of health? Have these things disappeared off the face of the map? Don't people in the US work for a living any more? Don't they get sick? Don't they grow food (and have a tough time making that pay for a roof over their heads) any more? Don't they need safe roads to get places any more? Has the Statue of Liberty donned reflecting sunglasses, a tazer, and a security badge? I agree that soldiers sacrifice a lot, often for the best and most honourable of reasons despite mismanagement and misguidedness at senior levels. But hell, aren't folks getting a little too carried away with the romance of wartime heroism at the expense of good old-fashioned realistic thinking? Everything alluded to in this cited article/passage tells me it's all going down the toilet amidst a flurry of salutes and "inspirational moments". It makes people feel good, and I suppose that's important, but it does so at great cost. When I was 12, I had the one and only hockey breakaway of my entire life. As I skated down the ice, I did what any 12 year-old Canadian boy would do: I had a running commentary in my head as if legendary announcer Foster Hewitt were describing me playing at the Montreal Forum or Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. For a brief shining moment, I was the hero in a heroic scenario. I was Frank Mahovalich and Dave Keon at the same time, passing back and forth to myself and about to make Gump Worsley or Terry Sawchuk regret they'd woken up that morning. Lost deep in thought and the "hero narrative", I skated right past the goal and head first into boards with no helmet (yeah, I know, the bunch of you are saying "Well THAT explains a lot!"). Knocked myself clean out and woke up a little while later with a bunch of people staring down at me. Dubya needs to look up and see the boards before its too late. All this inspirational crap is blinding him.

4/3/2003 1:58 AM

Mark Hammer

Hey....hey....HEY!!! You took the name of JC Watts (former Ottawa Rough Rider quarterback) in vain!

I don't know where you got this passage from but it does very very little to change what I've been thinking these past few weeks, and that is that this administration has tragically drifted towards being more military-driven since 09/11. I don't blame them for doing so. I can only blame them for not noticing, and if they noticed not thinking much about it.

If they salute Bush longer, it is because he has bought their affections. I wouldn't be quite so cynical as to chalk it up to manipulativeness, because quite clearly the military has had to rise to the occasion, so he has had something to compliment them about. But at the same time, he HAS had something to compliment them about, and has quite clearly upped the budget, upped their prestige, and certainly upped their bargaining power in the White House. Why wouldn't they love him to bits? If he went around doing for farmers what he's done for the military there wouldn't be a table anywhere in Iowa or Nebraska that wouldn't have a plate set for him.

Have you ever noticed how during the last 8 months the only federal senior officials you ever see on TV are military/security advisors and strategists. Have you noticed that the "inner circle" of the White House is entirely military or ex-military people? What the hell happened to the secretary of the interior, of labour, of agriculture, of health? Have these things disappeared off the face of the map? Don't people in the US work for a living any more? Don't they get sick? Don't they grow food (and have a tough time making that pay for a roof over their heads) any more? Don't they need safe roads to get places any more? Has the Statue of Liberty donned reflecting sunglasses, a tazer, and a security badge?

I agree that soldiers sacrifice a lot, often for the best and most honourable of reasons despite mismanagement and misguidedness at senior levels. But hell, aren't folks getting a little too carried away with the romance of wartime heroism at the expense of good old-fashioned realistic thinking? Everything alluded to in this cited article/passage tells me it's all going down the toilet amidst a flurry of salutes and "inspirational moments". It makes people feel good, and I suppose that's important, but it does so at great cost.

When I was 12, I had the one and only hockey breakaway of my entire life. As I skated down the ice, I did what any 12 year-old Canadian boy would do: I had a running commentary in my head as if legendary announcer Foster Hewitt were describing me playing at the Montreal Forum or Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. For a brief shining moment, I was the hero in a heroic scenario. *I* was Frank Mahovalich and Dave Keon at the same time, passing back and forth to myself and about to make Gump Worsley or Terry Sawchuk regret they'd woken up that morning.

Lost deep in thought and the "hero narrative", I skated right past the goal and head first into boards with no helmet (yeah, I know, the bunch of you are saying "Well THAT explains a lot!"). Knocked myself clean out and woke up a little while later with a bunch of people staring down at me.

Dubya needs to look up and see the boards before its too late. All this inspirational crap is blinding him.

4/3/2003 2:21 PM
Dave Rich	"Have you ever noticed how during the last 8 months the only federal senior officials you ever see on TV are military/security advisors and strategists." Mark, have you noticed that we are at war, that we were attacked? "Have you noticed that the "inner circle" of the White House is entirely military or ex-military people?" Isn't it good in a time of war to have people who understand the military? Doesn't military experience give one a more well rounded perspective on the historical and social implications of war over someone who knows nothing about it? "What the hell happened to the secretary of the interior, of labour, of agriculture, of health? Have these things disappeared off the face of the map? Don't people in the US work for a living any more? Don't they get sick? Don't they grow food (and have a tough time making that pay for a roof over their heads) any more? Don't they need safe roads to get places any more?" This paragraph reflects the liberal notion that people are scared, stupid sheep who can't get out of bed in the morning without a government official holding their hand. Believe it or not, life is going on here in the US, in spite of the government not because of it.

4/3/2003 2:21 PM

Dave Rich

"Have you ever noticed how during the last 8 months the only federal senior officials you ever see on TV are military/security advisors and strategists."

Mark, have you noticed that we are at war, that we were attacked?

"Have you noticed that the "inner circle" of the White House is entirely military or ex-military people?"

Isn't it good in a time of war to have people who understand the military? Doesn't military experience give one a more well rounded perspective on the historical and social implications of war over someone who knows nothing about it?

"What the hell happened to the secretary of the interior, of labour, of agriculture, of health? Have these things disappeared off the face of the map? Don't people in the US work for a living any more? Don't they get sick? Don't they grow food (and have a tough time making that pay for a roof over their heads) any more? Don't they need safe roads to get places any more?"

This paragraph reflects the liberal notion that people are scared, stupid sheep who can't get out of bed in the morning without a government official holding their hand. Believe it or not, life is going on here in the US, in spite of the government not because of it.

4/3/2003 3:40 PM

John Fisher

quote:
"Mark, have you noticed that we are at war, that we were attacked?"

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