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Vintage threads from the first ten years
Re: Why complain?
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 4/6/2003 5:57 AM |
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Tom Dellinger |
Re: Why complain? There's no doubt that the Iraqi people will be much better off without Sadaam. The question for me then becomes, where do we draw the line?? Are we to suddenly take it upon ourselves to go out there and liberate all the oppressed(as defined by us)of the world. There are a lot of candidates out there. And then give them...what? I saw a report on 60 minutes last week on a Shi-ite cleric who has been in exile and could be a serious contender for the leadership of that country. It will get very interesting in that he is an "ayatollah." I'm not sure exactly of what that means, but I believe it's a title and one that many Americans are rather uneasy with. What if the majority of Iraqi's want this man as their leader and it then becomes a fundamentalist state. Does anyone think that would be acceptable to the US? Exactly how much influence will or should we have at the end of this? |
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| 4/6/2003 6:31 AM |
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| Dai Hirokawa |
This exactly why I don't see the U.S. going, "Here's democracy, now we're just going to leave". Things have to be formed into what the U.S. wants and and an effort has to be made until it "takes"--at least that's the way I see it. What if the people in a democracy elect some nutcase or demogogue? Someone like that? Surely there are going to be many harrowing moments ahead that are going to require good decision-making like the story about how some U.S. (colonel?) faced with a hostile Iraqi crowd quickly ordered his men to fall to one knee, point down their weapons and smile to disarm the hostility. That was a nice story esp. after the unfortunate incident where the Iraqi family in their car at the check point was shot up, and a mother witnessed her kids' heads pop open. Not very comfortable images for sure. Dai | |
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| 4/6/2003 6:11 AM |
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| Dai Hirokawa |
The fear/concern (in general) seems to be that while you may solve one problem (getting rid of the oppressor), there may be a whole host of other ones created in the process and that it may not be worth the cost in resources and lives. And how do you govern the country if you get rid of the government that exists? Or out of practical necessity do you have to keep some there? I suppose you could make the argument that if any country can pull it off, it's going to be the richest, most powerful country in the world, most resources, deepest pockets, etc. (i.e. the United States). I HOPE that is correct, but it's a little hard for me to just take it on faith that the administration knows what they are doing. When I see it, then I'll believe it. As I understand it, there were lots of Japan experts who believed that Japanese were incapable of becoming democratic, and MacArthur kicked them out and brought in new people to help him rule in occupied Japan back in the post WWII era, so experts can be wrong. But then you have people like (fmr. Gen. Wesley Clark, IIRC) pointing out that conditions are different so you can't necessarily expect the same successful outcome, so... I think to a certain extent you can make things happen/successful by making a competent effort, but is the political will going to be there if the thing gets drawn out over a long period of time and keeps costing taxpayer money? Dai | |
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| 4/7/2003 6:38 PM |
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| Matt in TX |
"The fear/concern (in general) seems to be that while you may solve one problem (getting rid of the oppressor), there may be a whole host of other ones created in the process and that it may not be worth the cost in resources and lives" That's not a valid reason to not to try. Let's just not do anything because it may not be perfect? Not a good arguement. BTW... this war is supposed to be for the economy and oil right? Well, gas is still expensive, and companies are still laying people off. What's up with that? (yeah, being a little sarcastic there, but you get my point) |
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| 4/7/2003 7:28 PM |
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| Tom Dellinger |
Well..oil companies can't hand out multi million dollar bonuses to their executives and post record profits if they don't keep those prices up; artificially or not, eh? I suspect we'll be seeing a story or two in the business sections of our papers about the record profits they've "earned" during this period. From what I've seen in the papers, the recent spike in fuel prices is not related to a shortage of inventory at all. So, it shot up to today's level where it has stalled for some time. The inventory remains healthy and the price per barrel has actually come down. I can't tell you how surprised I am that the prices at the pump don't reflect this! |
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| 4/7/2003 9:12 PM |
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| MBSetzer |
Just a friendly reminder, when you fill up your tank in most places, the taxes which go straight to the different governments having jurisdiction amount to quite a bit more money than oil companies' net profits from that fuel. Mike |
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| 4/8/2003 9:31 AM |
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| Dai Hirokawa |
Interesting opinions from everybody. Here's some articles of interest I've seen in the past couple of days: http://www.thedailycamera.com/bdc/county_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2423_1866804,00.html http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/04/1048962935258.html http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/geted.pl5?eo20030408dh.htm http://www.petroleumworld.com/story0904.htm |
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