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Vintage threads from the first ten years

RWRP

5/4/2003 7:01 AM
Steve A.	RWRP LFO: To get true out of phase sound requires that one of the pickups be reverse wound. Reverse Wound Reverse Polarity (AKA RWRP) pickups are often used for the middle pickup to reduce hum; that has nothing to do with the "quacky" sound of the notched position. The middle pickup itself needs to be in phase with the other pickups or you will get an extremely thin sound (I tried a phase switch on a strat and it was completely useless. ) As for your experience with Lindy Fralin pickups, vintage-style strat pickups get more "quack" than a higher output or humcancelling type of pickup. BTW the original strats came with a 3 position selector switch but some of the guitarists back then would "stick" the switch between those positions to get the notched positions. AFAIK the original strats did not use a RWRP middle pickup so the notched positions were more susceptible to hum. I believe that it was in the early 60's that Fender changed to the 5 position selector switch. Steve Ahola P.S. As some of the other posts here mentioned, the position of the middle pickup in relation to the other two pickups will create an out-of-phase effect although the pickups themselves are in-phase electrically.

5/4/2003 7:01 AM

Steve A.

RWRP

LFO:

To get true out of phase sound requires that one of the pickups be reverse wound.

Reverse Wound Reverse Polarity (AKA RWRP) pickups are often used for the middle pickup to reduce hum; that has nothing to do with the "quacky" sound of the notched position. The middle pickup itself needs to be in phase with the other pickups or you will get an extremely thin sound (I tried a phase switch on a strat and it was completely useless.

)

As for your experience with Lindy Fralin pickups, vintage-style strat pickups get more "quack" than a higher output or humcancelling type of pickup.

BTW the original strats came with a 3 position selector switch but some of the guitarists back then would "stick" the switch between those positions to get the notched positions. AFAIK the original strats did not use a RWRP middle pickup so the notched positions were more susceptible to hum. I believe that it was in the early 60's that Fender changed to the 5 position selector switch.

Steve Ahola

P.S. As some of the other posts here mentioned, the position of the middle pickup in relation to the other two pickups will create an out-of-phase effect although the pickups themselves are in-phase electrically.

5/4/2003 9:55 AM
Luijo	Fender changed to 5-way switches in the mid 70's,with the introduction of the black pickguards on Strats,if i'm not mistaken.

5/4/2003 6:46 PM
Steve A.	Luijo: Fender changed to 5-way switches in the mid 70's... I guess you are right about the date because I just found this on the Angela site: Fender 5-Way Strat American Standard Switch, for when you're in one of those corny '70s 'out of phase' moods. Includes mounting screws and switch tips. GENUINE FENDER part; as used on USA guitars, fits old and new USA Fender guitars. SALE! EACH $5.75, TEN FOR JUST $55!!! So were the 5-way switches available as an aftermarket replacement before Fender started using them as standard equipment on their new guitars? --Thanks! Steve Ahola

5/4/2003 6:46 PM

Steve A.

Luijo:

Fender changed to 5-way switches in the mid 70's...

I guess you are right about the date because I just found this on the Angela site:

Fender 5-Way Strat American Standard Switch, for when you're in one of those corny '70s 'out of phase' moods. Includes mounting screws and switch tips. GENUINE FENDER part; as used on USA guitars, fits old and new USA Fender guitars. SALE! EACH $5.75, TEN FOR JUST $55!!!

So were the 5-way switches available as an aftermarket replacement before Fender started using them as standard equipment on their new guitars?

--Thanks!

Steve Ahola

5/4/2003 8:10 PM
Mark Hammer	Nashville Tele So yesterday I finally got my Jay Turser Tele converted to a "Nashville" Tele. Made myself a new pickguard, cut out the hole for the 3rd pickup, routed out the hole for the 3rd pickup (a homemade Strat with Alnico poles, coming in at about 7.2k DCR using #41 wire). Wired up the 5-way switch by running the neck lead to lug 1, bridge to lug 2 and middle to lug 3. This gives me: 1- neck 2 - neck + bridge 3 - bridge 4 - middle + bridge 5 - middle I took a look at a number of pics of production and custom shop nashville Teles, and the location of the middle pickup is such that the poleieces are exactly midway between the bridge and neck pickup at the treble end. At the bass end it is obviously a little closer to the bridge than neck pickup because of the tilt of the bridge pickup. Lots of cluck, with all that Tele twang too. The tone control is a 1meg pot wired up with a .0047 cap at one end and a .02 cap at the other, and the mid-position on the pot being no rolloff. Since I still have one set of contacts on the 5-way free, I may do something that couples tone control to switch position. E.g., it might be possible to stick an inductor in series with a cap on one end of the tone control and convert the treble cut to mid-cut whenever the middle pickup is engaged for cluck variations. For now, I'm in love with it. Now all I have to do is file down those fret ends that Turser decided to download to the consumer. A recommended mod.

5/4/2003 8:10 PM

Mark Hammer

Nashville Tele

So yesterday I finally got my Jay Turser Tele converted to a "Nashville" Tele. Made myself a new pickguard, cut out the hole for the 3rd pickup, routed out the hole for the 3rd pickup (a homemade Strat with Alnico poles, coming in at about 7.2k DCR using #41 wire). Wired up the 5-way switch by running the neck lead to lug 1, bridge to lug 2 and middle to lug 3. This gives me:
1- neck
2 - neck + bridge
3 - bridge
4 - middle + bridge
5 - middle

I took a look at a number of pics of production and custom shop nashville Teles, and the location of the middle pickup is such that the poleieces are exactly midway between the bridge and neck pickup *at the treble end*. At the bass end it is obviously a little closer to the bridge than neck pickup because of the tilt of the bridge pickup.

Lots of cluck, with all that Tele twang too. The tone control is a 1meg pot wired up with a .0047 cap at one end and a .02 cap at the other, and the mid-position on the pot being no rolloff. Since I still have one set of contacts on the 5-way free, I may do something that couples tone control to switch position. E.g., it might be possible to stick an inductor in series with a cap on one end of the tone control and convert the treble cut to mid-cut whenever the middle pickup is engaged for cluck variations. For now, I'm in love with it. Now all I have to do is file down those fret ends that Turser decided to download to the consumer.

A recommended mod.

5/4/2003 9:04 PM
Steve A.	Nashville Tele vs proposed Tel-o-caster! Mark: Your guitar sounds pretty cool! My ideal Fender guitar would be built on a tele body with a tele bridge pickup, and the neck and middle pickups from a strat. The classic strat sounds are the neck pickup and the notched positions... I find the bridge pickup alone to be fairly useless, especially with the stock wiring (no tone control connected to it). On a tele, I think that it is the bridge pickup that is most important (the neck pickup at best is like a strat neck's "little brother"). So why did Fender choose to use a tele neck pickup in their Nashville model? I smell a conspiracy here to cover up a technological advance which would make the stratocaster obsolete except for those people who want to use the trem! Am I the only person who has tightened down the trem springs on his strat and forgot where he put the vibrato bar? Fender has tooled up to make boatloads of strats so what would they do with all of them if my proposed "Tel-o-caster" were to go into production? Steve Ahola P.S. My idea of the tele neck pickup has changed a bit since getting one from Lindy Fralin; the one with Alnico 3 pole pieces on my '52 RI is even better than that. Those pickups sound really nice, not quite like a strat neck pickup with the metal cover, but much better than a crappy stock strat neck pickup. However I have been unimpressed with most of the tele neck pickups out there...

5/4/2003 9:04 PM

Steve A.

Nashville Tele vs proposed Tel-o-caster!

Mark:

    Your guitar sounds pretty cool!

    My ideal Fender guitar would be built on a tele body with a tele bridge pickup, and the neck and middle pickups from a strat. The classic strat sounds are the neck pickup and the notched positions... I find the bridge pickup alone to be fairly useless, especially with the stock wiring (no tone control connected to it). On a tele, I think that it is the bridge pickup that is most important (the neck pickup at best is like a strat neck's "little brother").

    So why did Fender choose to use a tele neck pickup in their Nashville model? I smell a conspiracy here to cover up a technological advance which would make the stratocaster obsolete except for those people who want to use the trem!

Am I the only person who has tightened down the trem springs on his strat and forgot where he put the vibrato bar? Fender has tooled up to make boatloads of strats so what would they do with all of them if my proposed "Tel-o-caster" were to go into production?

Steve Ahola

P.S. My idea of the tele neck pickup has changed a bit since getting one from Lindy Fralin; the one with Alnico 3 pole pieces on my '52 RI is even better than that. Those pickups sound really nice, not quite like a strat neck pickup with the metal cover, but much better than a crappy stock strat neck pickup. However I have been unimpressed with most of the tele neck pickups out there...

5/5/2003 4:58 AM
Mark Hammer	I suspect the reason for retaining the Tele neck pickup is that the polepîece spacing is a little different on it, namely closer. For whatever reaons, I think the strings fan out a little more on a Tele. Where a Strat pickup lines up nicely with the strings in the middle position, it tends to be a little wider than ideal in the neck position. I suppose one could have a slightly different nut-to-bridge width ratio and make the Strat pickup work on a Tele body but on a stock Tele a stock Tele pickup just works better. I suppose the compromise is to house a Tele pickup in something that is cosmetically like a strat pickup cover to leave the polepieces exposed. Maybe that would help. I just posted a picture of it at http://hammer.ampage.org. Some of the components may look weirdly off axis. That's because the "picture" was taken by plunking the guitar on top of the scanner and it was tilted to one side.

5/5/2003 4:58 AM

Mark Hammer

I suspect the reason for retaining the Tele neck pickup is that the polepîece spacing is a little different on it, namely closer. For whatever reaons, I think the strings fan out a little more on a Tele. Where a Strat pickup lines up nicely with the strings in the middle position, it tends to be a little wider than ideal in the neck position. I suppose one could have a slightly different nut-to-bridge width ratio and make the Strat pickup work on a Tele body but on a stock Tele a stock Tele pickup just works better. I suppose the compromise is to house a Tele pickup in something that is cosmetically like a strat pickup cover to leave the polepieces exposed. Maybe that would help.

I just posted a picture of it at http://hammer.ampage.org. Some of the components may look weirdly off axis. That's because the "picture" was taken by plunking the guitar on top of the scanner and it was tilted to one side.

5/5/2003 4:31 PM
Eric H	I have to get a scanner, that's an amazing shot. Nice work. I think I'd have to get some of those compensated saddles, though -Eric

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