Tube Amps / Music Electronics
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|10/9/2000 11:32 PM|
||Re: EVH stuff "Nothing special"???|
I think that you might be replying to the wrong person in the thread. I never used the word "tone". Besides, there are a select few "good" JCM 800 50 watt Leads that seem to have the EQ in a different spot than the rest of them (can someone comfirm this?) They sound a lot like the older Sup Leads.
You got me wrong again.. I am just saying that building amps with upteen gain stages and running plexi's off of variacs are not the answers. If you want to sound like EVH,
1: Get a guitar
2: Get a high gain amp
3: Learn control
4: Repeat step 3
EVH was a great and innovative guitarist. MJ was a great B-Ball player, but it wasn't really the "Shoes" that made him great. I was just posting an objective and unbiased opinion of what I heard. Having not lisened to EVH before, I felt that I could provide a unique prospective.
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|10/10/2000 2:53 AM|
[QUOTE]If you want to sound like EVH,
1: Get a guitar
2: Get a high gain amp
3: Learn control
4: Repeat step 3[/QUOTE]
True, except for #3, which would only hold true for anything recorded with the 5150 amp. His plexi isn't a high gain amp. Rather, it is a lower gain NMV amp with a variac. That's a WAY different sound. To hear this difference well, listen to the VH tune "Can't Get This Stuff No More". The first part of the solo is played through his 5150 amp, and some kind of filter. Then, when he kicks in with his Marshall, WHOA, what a difference!
I'm interested in getting some feedback on this.
|10/10/2000 7:06 AM|
Gord, Gord, Gord
See, here we all go again with the frickin variac. On the recordings I downloaded (read origional post), there was no frickin variac. There was a nice sounding Marshall (which I mistook for a good JCM 800 Lead 50 and turned out to be a plexi) that happened to be well dialed... Nothing special.
What EVH used "live" there after is arbitrary. Get napster, download the songs, give them a listen.
I then said,
Then you said,
I think you are agreeing with me, just on a different song..
Can't you see that people who add posts about "Tone" and "Live" are not really lending substance to the context of the begining of the thread thread.
I downloaded 10 songs
I thought he was great
I reported exactly what I heard (believe it or not, I am really frickin good at figuring out how to immitate sounds)
Then someone brings up the variac thing!! Maybe he was setting his variac to 117v-120v!! Ya ever think of that!!!
Sorry, this is not a flame, it's me just being a drunk, hypocritical, butt licking asshole.
All in good fun
PS, Gord, if yer ever in Seattle, pop me an e-mail and I'll grab ya a brew.
|10/10/2000 1:44 PM|
"Yes" he did use a variac, however, it's not the "magical" link to getting his tone at all. It's also a might on the dangerous side as far as the amp is concerned.
If you ever get the chance to plug into a real plexi (not the reissues) then do not pass up the chance!! You will be amazed at just how much gain is avalible in those preamps!! Take a guitar with a higher output humbucker and grab something to hammer to front end (even a volume booster) and off you go!
It goes without mentioning that the recording process is crucial to the tone that you hear on recordings but that's a LONG post! (ha, ha)
|10/10/2000 7:45 PM|
Victor you are a FRICKING IDIOT!!! You keep saying EVH's tone, sorry you never said tone, you said "sound", was "nothing special"? I would like to know what you think is "SPECIAL"! I bet you don't even have a tube amp. You probably have a Crate or something! If you don't know what you are talking about don't post anything! Just read some of these posts and try to learn something!
|10/10/2000 10:03 PM|
|10/11/2000 5:24 PM|
I agree completely with Victor when he says *LOL*.
Especially I appreciate his effort to be unbiased. From an educated and experienced point of view, he gives his raw initial thoughts on the sound of a rock legend with which he was not intimately familiar. This was done as he was using his guitar to become more familiar, which seems to me to be the right tool to use
I like Van Halen myself more each year now that his stuff is becoming more familiar to me as it proves to stand the test of time. I am an oldie and to me he still seems like a *new* artist, like Eric Johnson, because I also first became aware of his recordings on the radio after I had already stopped buying records & tapes, so it was too late for me to own any of his work. I never got any CD's and only started using digital media now that I have a computer.
As opposed to for instance Hendrix, Zappa, Garcia, or Led Zeppelin which I have listened to since I was a teen-ager, and got albums as they were released.
I sure have heard a lot more Van Halen on the radio than Eric Johnson, but I've never tried to learn either of their licks, neither one is my style and I'm not that good. It was excellent to hear from Victor, he seems like he is good at picking out tunes and dialing in tones, like I would want to myself if I was a musician.
Anyway, my point is that two of the noticeably killer tunes mentioned, Eruption and You Really Got Me I have heard a number of times and mainly thought they were some of the better examples of Van Halen's best sounds, and exemplified his developed personal style of playing. There's a few other tunes that each time I hear them now I continue to increase my respect for him as a player as opposed to just a party band they seemed like when they were first touring, I never saw him live. I was really not paying proper attention until recently myself.
But I've heard that tone before and realized it had come to be associated with EVH, not that I didn't think it was outstanding, but I first was modifying surplus tube sets in the '60's when I was a young teen-ager and getting *lots* of distortion of many types from numerous amps. I just always thought that was what a good amp was supposed to sound like when it was cranked. Still do. I was just a hobbyist then too, although I was a much better player, I now feel there were probably older kids especially in places like L.A. that had tweaked their amps as good as they thought they could do, and they did sound better than the stock units new in music stores. Seems to me that EVH just got a hold of one of these and did his creative part using his way of handling the guitar to get the most out of both instruments.
So I'm with Victor on this: the big difference is the playing, it really wouldn't take a unique amp or a certain special Marshall or variac setting. If you want an amp to have the ability to sound like that in case EVH came along to play it, you would have to tweak it in that direction. If the amp you were starting with was really far away to begin with, that might be some serious tweaking
Once it was there, you would probably find that almost any variac setting within reason would all be great, especially if EVH were playing, it wouldn't matter if you were above or below line voltage.
With kilos of variacs to work with, and amp topologies I assembled to allow extreme variacing without tube damage (until I decide to carry the destructive testing to completion), I do have a little *current* experience under laboratory conditions, I would not suggest anyone with an amp they love to connect it through a variac, or modify it to supposedly limit the possible damage. Either approach would compromise a favorite amp, that's what bench experiments are for instead. Don't take the chance on letting the smoke out of equipment that you might want to use in the future
I guess a good philosophy about the right approach for a musician or guitar player who wants to sound as unique as EVH or EJ would be pretty traditional, just follow the long ago published directions on how to get to Carnegie Hall . . .
Once you get there, I think not only will you be able to use whatever amp is available to an extreme advantage, but likely there will then be more unique amps to choose from than the average player has, and that will put the icing on the cake adding more uniqueness to your personal sound.
With the foundation being the guitar playing, you will be able to get there with various equipment.
If the foundation is merely the gear, you may or may not go as far as you would like.
All that being said, for a non-musician guitar player like me who is not trying to entertain anyone but myself, admittedly all I do for the last 20 years is tricks to make myself sound better than I am, starting with an amp that would do well for EVH is a great trick . . .
But I need even more help than that
These days I put more creative energy into amp circuits than I do my playing, but for a while now two songs that I think are a good starting point are; you guessed it . . . Eruption & You Really Got Me. I seriously don't think striving to attain these now legendary tones is an ultimate objective though, I simply expect that any gain circuit I assemble with expectation of having appeal to talented guitarists will at least be able to make a real EVH wannabe satisfied. Now my objective is to go further starting at least from that minimum performance standard, its been a long time since Van Halen recorded their popular albums
My caustic viewpoint rises to the surface again,
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