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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: Throw away your solder iron....CyberTwin

1/20/2001 8:40 AM
Bob	Re: Throw away your solder iron....CyberTwin Hey, and your blues amp could have a cigarette lighter on a knob between the speed and intensity and a Jack Daniels spigot on the side.

1/19/2001 9:39 PM
JM	When and if modeling technolgy, transisors, or Mr Fliegler's little Ritchie the Robots manage to fully emulate a good tube amp, I seriously doubt it will have the Fender name on it. Fender, Marshall and the other big guys would have totaly dumped tubes all together a long time ago if there wasn't a whole lot of bitching that their replacements were not good enough sounding. Sound quality has been missing from these guys list of things to do for some time now. Even if the "perfect" modeling technology is invented, I'm sure the major amp companies will find a way to skimp on the quality of this new design to keep the profits high and the retail cost low, this is what they do best. I would be glad to try something new but I'm not holding my breath. Thirty years have gone by and Fender still wants to sell me a Libra but hey now it's got a couple tubes in it, a new high tech name, and... ROBOTS!!! JM

1/19/2001 9:39 PM

When and if modeling technolgy, transisors, or Mr Fliegler's little Ritchie the Robots manage to fully emulate a good tube amp, I seriously doubt it will have the Fender name on it. Fender, Marshall and the other big guys would have totaly dumped tubes all together a long time ago if there wasn't a whole lot of bitching that their replacements were not good enough sounding. Sound quality has been missing from these guys list of things to do for some time now. Even if the "perfect" modeling technology is invented, I'm sure the major amp companies will find a way to skimp on the quality of this new design to keep the profits high and the retail cost low, this is what they do best. I would be glad to try something new but I'm not holding my breath. Thirty years have gone by and Fender still wants to sell me a Libra but hey now it's got a couple tubes in it, a new high tech name, and... ROBOTS!!!

JM

1/20/2001 8:36 AM
Bob	Now there's a T-shirt saying: Hey, I ain't married to the 60s...

1/19/2001 11:02 PM
Knucklehead	I don't get the whole "modeling amp" "cyber twin" "POD" etc. stuff. Call me old fashioned....

1/19/2001 11:58 PM
Scott L	Who knows, maybe it sounds pretty good. I'd be willing to plug into it and listen. That Rocktron Reptile-tone amp actually sounds good. I don't however see how one amp with 2 12" celestions could ever sound like my beloved BF super or even a twin with 2 12" jensens for that matter. Different box, different speaker configuration, different sounding speakers it doesn't add up. I will keep an open mind though. As far as bashing Richie Fliegler, Remember that Leo wasn't building amplifiers for spiritual reasons but was trying to make reasonably priced professional quality instruments that the public wanted using current mass production techniques . This may be blasphemous but he could have made them better using more costly parts and construction methods but even Leo was interested in making money. You can't blame Fender for pursuing the Hi Tech market. They want to be a leader in as many segments as they can and like it or not, digital modeling amps are BIG, and thats where the money is. Kudos to Fender for being competitive while still respecting the classics ( they did just reissue the BFSR ). Having said that, Let me let me say what I do and don't like about digital products. To me digital is and will always be synonymous with fake. We are analog beings in an analog world . Digital, no matter what the sampling rate will always be a jagged edged facsimile that can only be an imitation no matter how good. My relationship with my Tube amps includes the little imperfections and idiosyncracies.It's part of the charm, plus I can make little or big changes to make them totally unique . If it were possible to construct a "perfect" lover using technology that was indiscernible from real flesh without any faults, how many of us would find "it" acceptable and satisfying? (you guys going thru a divoce don't count).Fake is fake period, no soul, dead ,cold. Now I must say that I like CD's. They arent perfect but we almost all enjoy them and most people can't hear the imperfections. They sure are practical. Digital tuners are good too as is digitally controlled fuel injection and ignition. I hope Fender makes the best sounding Digital or hybrid amp the world has ever seen and I hope they sell alot of them to all the players that would be happy with them. It's OK. There will always be some of us that hear and feel the difference. I just hope the supply of good tubes doesn't dry up

1/19/2001 11:58 PM

Scott L

Who knows, maybe it sounds pretty good. I'd be willing to plug into it and listen. That Rocktron Reptile-tone amp actually sounds good. I don't however see how one amp with 2 12" celestions could ever sound like my beloved BF super or even a twin with 2 12" jensens for that matter. Different box, different speaker configuration, different sounding speakers it doesn't add up. I will keep an open mind though. As far as bashing Richie Fliegler, Remember that Leo wasn't building amplifiers for spiritual reasons but was trying to make reasonably priced professional quality instruments that the public wanted using current mass production techniques . This may be blasphemous but he could have made them better using more costly parts and construction methods but even Leo was interested in making money. You can't blame Fender for pursuing the Hi Tech market. They want to be a leader in as many segments as they can and like it or not, digital modeling amps are BIG, and thats where the money is. Kudos to Fender for being competitive while still respecting the classics ( they did just reissue the BFSR ).

Having said that, Let me let me say what I do and don't like about digital products. To me digital is and will always be synonymous with fake. We are analog beings in an analog world . Digital, no matter what the sampling rate will always be a jagged edged facsimile that can only be an imitation no matter how good. My relationship with my Tube amps includes the little imperfections and idiosyncracies.It's part of the charm, plus I can make little or big changes to make them totally unique . If it were possible to construct a "perfect" lover using technology that was indiscernible from real flesh without any faults, how many of us would find "it" acceptable and satisfying? (you guys going thru a divoce don't count).Fake is fake period, no soul, dead ,cold.

Now I must say that I like CD's. They arent perfect but we almost all enjoy them and most people can't hear the imperfections. They sure are practical. Digital tuners are good too as is digitally controlled fuel injection and ignition.

I hope Fender makes the best sounding Digital or hybrid amp the world has ever seen and I hope they sell alot of them to all the players that would be happy with them. It's OK. There will always be some of us that hear and feel the difference. I just hope the supply of good tubes doesn't dry up

1/20/2001 3:36 AM
Chris B	I totaly agree about digital. Digital IS fake! As far as amps are concerned, analog is the only way to go. That dosen't mean that tubes are always better though. In some cases, I prefer transistors. The Trademark 60 is an excellent sounding solid state amp, but then again it's analog. Most solid state designs use digital chips in them and suck as a result. Just my opinion, and I'm not saying solid state is better, just different. Prime Rib is great, but I wouldn't want to eat it everyday! Chris B

1/20/2001 3:36 AM

Chris B

I totaly agree about digital. Digital IS fake! As far as amps are concerned, analog is the only way to go. That dosen't mean that tubes are always better though. In some cases, I prefer transistors. The Trademark 60 is an excellent sounding solid state amp, but then again it's analog. Most solid state designs use digital chips in them and suck as a result. Just my opinion, and I'm not saying solid state is better, just different. Prime Rib is great, but I wouldn't want to eat it everyday!

Chris B

1/20/2001 6:59 AM
latherboy	Human neurons are more like digital than analog. They either fire or they don't. Movement, hearing, seeing, feeling, etc. That being said I think that the modeling stuff still doesn't sound as good as glowing tubes. But being a guitar player, I wish the modeling stuff sounded as good as tubes. I love to have different sounds for each song and it would be great if I could have a magic box that could sound and feel like a vox, marshall, fender, matchless, boogie, soldano, fuzzface, etc. I don't care what it is as long as it sounds great. I don't love tube amps, I love the sound of great tube amps. My hope is that in a few years the masses will be able to afford better sounding gear so that more bands will have good tone and we won't be tortured by lame tone anymore (and world peace and no lawyers, politicians, or big record companies). Latherboy

1/20/2001 6:59 AM

latherboy

Human neurons are more like digital than analog. They either fire or they don't. Movement, hearing, seeing, feeling, etc. That being said I think that the modeling stuff still doesn't sound as good as glowing tubes. But being a guitar player, I wish the modeling stuff sounded as good as tubes. I love to have different sounds for each song and it would be great if I could have a magic box that could sound and feel like a vox, marshall, fender, matchless, boogie, soldano, fuzzface, etc. I don't care what it is as long as it sounds great. I don't love tube amps, I love the sound of great tube amps.

My hope is that in a few years the masses will be able to afford better sounding gear so that more bands will have good tone and we won't be tortured by lame tone anymore (and world peace and no lawyers, politicians, or big record companies).

Latherboy

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