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Re: R.G., here's a test for you


 :
6/7/2000 12:04 PM
Holger Notzel
Re: R.G., here's a test for you
I'd like to reply and clarify some things. First of all, I consider R.G. a great guy. I've had personal dealings with him and found him to be extremely friendly and helpful. The man knows more than I ever will, and his web site is a great service to all. So if I came across as though I was dissing him, I'd like to apologize. Such was not my intention.  
Back to my hearing test: On every guitar/ amp related discussion forum there always seems to be the same type of discussion going on. This pickup versus that pickup, this speaker versus that speaker, metal film resistors vs. carbon comps. Problem is, if anyone participates in such a discussion, they have no way of knowing what the other person hears. When I used to do service work, I ran across lots of people (some of them great musicians) to whom Svetlana EL34s and Mullard EL34s sound exactly alike. Then there's the guys for whom you install a perfectly matched set of Mullards and they can hear which tube is in the right socket and which is left. How are these two groups going to have a meaningful discussion about sound?  
My test is a good one. It has little to do with a person's hearing range. The fact that a guitar amp only goes up to 7kHz means nothing. After all, that's the range we're dealing with when we compare component types, the differences are audible in this range. What it is about is hearing detail. Some are born with this gift, some have to learn it. If you think this is all about guessing, why don't you just try my little experience for a week. What can you lose?
 
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6/8/2000 11:46 AM
Trace

quote:
"What it is about is hearing detail."
 
 
OK I see your point but on the same turn of the screw you should probably realize that the only person this test seems important to is yourself. Many would (and do) view this sort of test as offensive or even rude.  
 
Why? No one should have to take a "test" on this BBS or any other for that matter. Who's to decide if he (or anyone) passes or fails. A lot of things we talk about here are based on opinions. Test are typically performed to quiz students on the facts (not opinions) and I'm pretty certain that RG is well passed the student level.  
 
quote:
"Some are born with this gift, some have to learn it."
 
 
In my experience when it comes to hearing sonic detail you either hear it or you don't. When someone keeps telling you what you should be hearing I think you get into physco-acoustic hearing.."well if he hears it then I MUST be able to hear it as well"...  
 
After being in the studio for years that's my experience. Some people can learn what to listen for but they cannot learn what is inborn.  
 
quote:
"If you think this is all about guessing, why don't you just try my little experience for a week. What can you lose?"
 
 
I don't think guessing is the point here at all. What does your experiment "prove" anyways? Many times I hear things that others do not...some hear them the same way I do and others don't. Is it right or wrong...of course not! Some people think CC resistors sound different tonally than metal film. I say use whatever you think sounds good to your ear!!  
 
Tone is very subjective and therefore there is right or wrong to it.  
 
Trace
 
6/8/2000 12:33 PM
GFR

quote:
"In my experience when it comes to hearing sonic detail you either hear it or you don't. When someone keeps telling you what you should be hearing I think you get into physco-acoustic hearing.."well if he hears it then I MUST be able to hear it as well"..."
 
 
I'm sure you can learn it. Not by someone telling you what to hear, but by listening and paying attention to what you listen - then your brain evolves and it becomes natural. Some people are born like this but you still can build this abillity.  
 
I've read about deaf people who had a mic with a special circuit "interfaced" to their coclea. At first they heard people's voice with a metallic tone - then after some months they were able to hear it with a more natural tone, as the brain has adapted to overcome the mic/circuit limitations.  
 
It's not a psycho thing, it's neural. Our brain is really amazing.  
 
A just born can barely distinguish a male voice from a female voice, then after some time he can distinguish his mother's voice among other female voices. For an adult it's harder to deveop new abillities and in general you will get small progresses, but I'm sure you can "learn" to hear detail. I know people who have.
 
6/8/2000 7:49 PM
dutch

>>A just born can barely distinguish a male voice from a female voice, then after some time he can distinguish his mother's voice among other female voices. For an adult it's harder to deveop new abillities and in general you will get small progresses, but I'm sure you can "learn" to hear detail. I know people who have.  
>>  
 
IMHO, if you can tell who it is on the other end of the phone when someone you know calls you, then you have all you need upstairs to be able to learn to tell this stuff apart, and it'll just take some dedication and practice to learn it.... Anyone who tells you that it's impossible to learn something is wrong. Like you said, our brain is really amazing.....  
 
Just you wait until someone figures out how to align the intra-atomic spaces (we're 99% not here according to quantum physics) in his/her body with the intra-atomic spaces of the wall and walks right through it. It's just a matter of time....  
 
C ya,  
Dutch
 
6/8/2000 10:09 PM
steveR

Ever read Illusions by Richard Bach? Maybe somebody's already done it.
 
6/16/2000 12:22 AM
dutch

Stever-  
I started it, but never finished it.... Sometime when I have time to really sit and ponder it I'll reread it.  
 
C ya,  
Dutch
 
6/10/2000 6:15 AM
Trace

What I meant about "detail" was that some people do not hear subtle differences sometimes. I've known guitar players who could read music great and played great they couldn't tell the difference between a F or a D or an A. It happens and I can't explain why.  
 
I agree on all the other things you guys have mentioned! The human mind is amazing and a true wonder.  
 
Trace
 

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