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R.G., here's a test for you


 :
6/4/2000 1:39 PM
Holger Notzel
R.G., here's a test for you
I'm not poking fun, this is seriously the Litmus test of your hearing abilities. Get a hold of a decent blackface Fender in good working condition. Don't use reverb. Play a clean note in the treble register and listen to the decay of that note. As it dies down, listen to the sustain and decay of the highest harmonic riding on top of that note. How loud is that harmonic? How many "layers" of harmonics can you count above the fundamental pitch?  
Now have a friend remove the shield of the first gain stage preamp tube and try again. Is there a difference in the sustain and volume of the upper harmonic? Maybe even an extra layer?  
This may take a while to learn, also your ear will fatigue quickly. Do it once a day for a week or so.  
The goal is simply to be able to have somebody remove and install the shield in a blind test and nail it everytime.  
Not everyone will be able to hear this. If they can't, they should consider it a blessing. They will have a much easier time finding the right gear.  
They also should accept the facts and refrain from parttaking in discussions about the sonic differences between resistor types. Again, please take this the right way, I'm just trying to establish some common ground on which to base our observations. There are guys who hear much better than I do. One guy I met could tell which end of his standard music store guitar cord was plugged into the amp, in a blind test, every time. If he were to tell me that green hookup wire sounds better than blue wire, I would't argue. Hogy
 
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6/6/2000 8:57 PM
Jim S.

quote:
"They also should accept the facts and refrain from parttaking in discussions about the sonic differences between resistor types"
 
 
Mr Notzel:  
 
This is Ampage. I say: anybody who is considerate and reasonably polite (and you're right on the edge, mister) should feel free to partake in any Gol-darned discussion they please!  
 
Accept this fact: suggesting that an Ampage participant can't hear as well as you is an insult, pure and simple. I don't appreciate that.  
 
One more thing: nobody needs to take your silly test.  
 
-Jim S.
 
6/6/2000 9:37 PM
Mark

Jim,  
 
You are quite correct that anyone should take part in any discussion that they please.  
 
While Mr. Notzel may not be so well-versed in the social graces as you, his test idea is interesting. IMO everybody who has undamaged hearing is probably capable of hearing the differences between carbon comp and carbon film resistors (or whatever other ridiculously anal test you can think of). Most of us (myself) included just don't take the time to listen that critically. And we probably don't know what to listen for. I think the test is a good idea just to get myself in the habit of listening a little more closely. If you lighten up a bit and try it you just might learn something yourself. :-)  
 
YMMV  
Mark
 
6/7/2000 12:51 AM
Jim S.
What's going on here?
quote:
"If you lighten up a bit and try it you just might learn something yourself"
 
 
First of all, I *have* noticed that Fender amps can sound subtly brighter if some of the tube shields are removed. I'm sure lots of us have. Big deal. That by itself doesn't mean I have superhuman ears.  
 
But the point I'm trying to make has nothing to do with tube shields or CC resistors.  
 
What really burns me up is when someone decides to annoint themselves as an authority figure by concocting some kind of pass/fail test that is intended to separate the "real guys" from the no-nothing (or, in this case, hear-nothing) schmos. Who gave them the right to put themselves in this exalted position and judge the rest of us? Screw that!  
 
Another thing that's been bothering me: why is it that, lately, R.G. seems to be attracting some posts that are clearly intended to try and knock him down a few notches? Anyone who has been around Ampage for any length of time and has any sensibility knows that R.G. is an extremely knowledgeable, experienced person who has always been generous in sharing information to anybody who asks, via posts and his own web site. Plus, R.G.'s somewhat analytic/scientific approach to music electronics provides, I believe, a welcome contrast to a lot of the voodoo/mojo stuff that happens here (and there's inherently wrong with that, I just want to hear a range of viewpoints). Plus, in my experience, R.G. has never acted authoritarian or arrogant in any way.  
 
Does R.G.'s presence here at Ampage make some guys feel THAT jealous?
 
6/7/2000 2:07 AM
Peter S

Amen Jim. But why would someone be jealous of someone who is knowledgeable and generous enough to share it. I havent been around Ampage very long because I always resisted computers(they dont have enough tubes in them).....until now. This forum is fantastic, I'm sure glad I stopped hating computers long enough to find this place. Everyone has something to contribute here. I for one am grateful to R.G. for his insight and willingness to share his knowledge.  
 
Peter S  
Kimerik Amps
 
6/7/2000 3:00 PM
J Epstein

>>What really burns me up is when someone decides to annoint themselves as an authority figure by concocting some kind of pass/fail test that is intended to separate the "real guys" from the no-nothing (or, in this case, hear-nothing) schmos<<  
 
I have an audiophile friend who thinks his sensitivity to harshness, listening fatigue, etc, is due to tinnitus. In other words, he thinks he is more sensitive to certain things, especially in the treble, because his hearing is DAMAGED.  
 
FWIW.  
 
-j
 
6/8/2000 2:14 AM
Richie{~}==:::
Jim: There are many here that I have learned so much from, R.G and Doc, Graywater and others.. these guys are some of the best. i always listen to what they have to say.And as you say, hes always taking his time to write his opinions. Glad he is here doing this. We all don't agree on the same things sometimes.But they always go out of their way to help someone.And seen this many times.We all hear different things .. which is good. No matter what we hear,i consider R.G. as a fellow ampager. i don't think R.G needs a hearing test. his knowledge of electronics and amps and effects are just amazing. For a funny hearing test i'll tell ya the one i had in school. The science teacher was conducting a hearing test. Me sitting there daydreaming out the window. His test was a ruler and a pocket watch, he puts the ruler straight out behind your head, and sets the watch close, supposed to see how far you can still hear it. and takes out his pocket watch, everyone gets real quiet. Supposed to listen to see how far away in inches you hear it ticking. He asked me "do you hear it" "yes" do you hear it now "yes" do you still hear it" Yes" DO you hear it now?? I said YES!! the whole class laughs.. he said your hear better than anyone.. then pulls his watch from his pocket..!!! just thought i'd through in a little humor. And so much for hearing tests..  
Richie(~)==:::
 

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