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Vintage threads from the first ten years

using car audio spkrs for guitar

10/20/1999 3:55 AM
WildBill	using car audio spkrs for guitar This might sound either dumb or chintzy but as a Canadian "Vintage 30's" are hellaciously pricy and not locally available. I found an electronics parts store that also carries a wide range of car audio spkrs from small to large (round) spec'd up to several hundred watts. They're suspiciously cheap and appear to have been made in China by US and Canadian re-branders. I understand the tone differences between Jensen and a Celestion (Celestions rule!) but I have no idea of the basic pertinent technicalities of speakers used in different applications. Are there inherent design differences that would make these car/hi-fi spkrs sound like crap when reproducing my EL 34's from a Gibson humbucker? Worse yet, would they sound "country"? Anyone got any experience to share?

10/20/1999 3:55 AM

WildBill

using car audio spkrs for guitar

This might sound either dumb or chintzy but as a Canadian "Vintage 30's" are hellaciously pricy and not locally available. I found an electronics parts store that also carries a wide range of car audio spkrs from small to large (round) spec'd up to several hundred watts. They're suspiciously cheap and appear to have been made in China by US and Canadian re-branders.
I understand the tone differences between Jensen and a Celestion (Celestions rule!) but I have no idea of the basic pertinent technicalities of speakers used in different applications. Are there inherent design differences that would make these car/hi-fi spkrs sound like crap when reproducing my EL 34's from a Gibson humbucker? Worse yet, would they sound "country"?
Anyone got any experience to share?

10/20/1999 5:52 AM
Psycho Bass Guy	NEVER! NEVER use car stereo speakers for guitar cabs. The ratings on them are made for amps running a 1khz test tone at a very constant power level. Most car amps put out less than 50% of their rated power with the speakers being worse. Just take a look at the shoddy construction, flimsy baskets and nonexistent (practically) magnets. One good transient from a signal that has not been compressed down like CD's or radio, and you have cute little pieces of paper flying everywhere. Psycho

10/20/1999 5:52 AM

Psycho Bass Guy

NEVER! NEVER use car stereo speakers for guitar cabs. The ratings on them are made for amps running a 1khz test tone at a very constant power level. Most car amps put out less than 50% of their rated power with the speakers being worse. Just take a look at the shoddy construction, flimsy baskets and nonexistent (practically) magnets. One good transient from a signal that has not been compressed down like CD's or radio, and you have cute little pieces of paper flying everywhere.

Psycho

10/20/1999 6:40 AM
Steve A.	Psycho: And ditto for home stereo speakers! Guitar amps send some real mean spikes to speakers that just aren't present in recordings or broadcasts. Even if the peak watt ratings are followed, you'll still end up with a fried speaker. BTW I used to buy Bose 901 drivers from work for my friends to use in their cars 25+ years ago and they were really nice for 6"(? - it's been a long time!) drivers. I never got around to trying it but I always figured that if you painted the cone with something like black silicone it would make a good speaker for a 1 to 5 watt guitar amp... Steve Ahola

10/20/1999 6:40 AM

Steve A.

Psycho:

And ditto for home stereo speakers! Guitar amps send some real mean spikes to speakers that just aren't present in recordings or broadcasts. Even if the peak watt ratings are followed, you'll still end up with a fried speaker.

BTW I used to buy Bose 901 drivers from work for my friends to use in their cars 25+ years ago and they were really nice for 6"(? - it's been a long time!) drivers. I never got around to trying it but I always figured that if you painted the cone with something like black silicone it would make a good speaker for a 1 to 5 watt guitar amp...

Steve Ahola

10/20/1999 7:02 AM
Psycho Bass Guy	Re: using car audio spkrs for guitar(Hey Steve! This is off the thread but look anyway!) Funny you should mention Bose 901's. I was talking with a friend of mine and he remembered the PT for the amp that pushed them. It weighed over 100 lbs and was the size of a computer monitor! It had to be installed with an engine hoist when he got an amp that had a bad one from the factory. (I wonder what kind of tube bass amp I could make with that?) Psycho

10/20/1999 7:02 AM

Psycho Bass Guy

Re: using car audio spkrs for guitar(Hey Steve! This is off the thread but look anyway!)

Funny you should mention Bose 901's. I was talking with a friend of mine and he remembered the PT for the amp that pushed them. It weighed over 100 lbs and was the size of a computer monitor! It had to be installed with an engine hoist when he got an amp that had a bad one from the factory. (I wonder what kind of tube bass amp I could make with that?)
Psycho

10/20/1999 11:20 AM
GFR	Re: using car audio spkrs for guitar Well, "normal" car speakers surely can't stand it. But what about those speakers for car "competion" audio systems, where you have bi-amplification, separate batteries just for the audio gear, sub-woofers, horns and the hell? I've seen some really rugged speakers for this use, with very big magnets. They were not exactly cheap, however. It reminds me a tagline "the man is the only animal that will put a U$20,000 sound system into a U$10,000 car".

10/20/1999 11:20 AM

GFR

Re: using car audio spkrs for guitar

Well, "normal" car speakers surely can't stand it. But what about those speakers for car "competion" audio systems, where you have bi-amplification, separate batteries just for the audio gear, sub-woofers, horns and the hell? I've seen some really rugged speakers for this use, with very big magnets. They were not exactly cheap, however. It reminds me a tagline "the man is the only animal that will put a U$20,000 sound system into a U$10,000 car".

10/20/1999 12:41 PM
Whit	GFR, Hey, I'm putting a $200 tube audio system in a $100 car! I guess that's the same animal ratio... ... Whit

10/20/1999 2:10 PM
Psycho Bass Guy	I get a kick out of car stereo guys. What most of them don't realize is that there is a secondary damping to their speaker due to the car itself becoming a big tuned ported cabinent and keeping the SPL's very high with a relatively low amount of power compared to a stand alone cabinet like guitar or bass. Those "competition" speakers wouldn't last ten seconds in any application outside of car stereo. Have you ever watched the excursion when car speakers "hit"(as thoes supposed bass fanatics like to say)? Feed them anything not already compressed, and they flame. Those "competition bass" tracks are nothing more than a sampled kick drum that has been compressed and detuned electronically. It is a false peak because the entire transient has already had any abberant signal squashed out of it and it presents a slow (compared to a normal transient) rise to the speaker. Most of that shitty BOOM BOOM is above 100 hz anyway and not even true bass. The amps are still way overrated (usually peak power is listed as RMS). The batteries serve only as a pseudo constant voltage source but are far worse about sag than the worst tube rectifier. I find it interesting that car stereo places now sell special capacitors in an attempt to emulate the filter (and its high DC feed) in an AC power supply. If I put my bass amp inside a car, it would literally explode out the windows! I have yet to see a car stereo speaker that can flap a pant leg. Psycho

10/20/1999 2:10 PM

Psycho Bass Guy

I get a kick out of car stereo guys. What most of them don't realize is that there is a secondary damping to their speaker due to the car itself becoming a big tuned ported cabinent and keeping the SPL's very high with a relatively low amount of power compared to a stand alone cabinet like guitar or bass. Those "competition" speakers wouldn't last ten seconds in any application outside of car stereo.

Have you ever watched the excursion when car speakers "hit"(as thoes supposed bass fanatics like to say)? Feed them anything not already compressed, and they flame. Those "competition bass" tracks are nothing more than a sampled kick drum that has been compressed and detuned electronically. It is a false peak because the entire transient has already had any abberant signal squashed out of it and it presents a slow (compared to a normal transient) rise to the speaker. Most of that shitty BOOM BOOM is above 100 hz anyway and not even true bass.

The amps are still way overrated (usually peak power is listed as RMS). The batteries serve only as a pseudo constant voltage source but are far worse about sag than the worst tube rectifier. I find it interesting that car stereo places now sell special capacitors in an attempt to emulate the filter (and its high DC feed) in an AC power supply.

If I put my bass amp inside a car, it would literally explode out the windows! I have yet to see a car stereo speaker that can flap a pant leg.

Psycho

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