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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Tel Ray, or Can reverb/phase shifters

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7/29/1999 10:19 PM

Tel Ray, or Can reverb/phase shifters

I was wondering if anyone had any information about these types of units. I recently bought a Tel Ray Deluxe Organ unit, and everything seems to work electronically, but it seems like the mechanical can (like a coffee can, actually it's more like a sterno can) isn't working properly. It would be very helpful if anyone knew how these cans work.

It looks to me like one of the three inputs to the can is being driven from one tube stage, and another input (?) to the can is being driven in common cathode mode into the can. I question whether this second lead is an input or a return as a modulator onto a gain stage through the cathode. The third lead surely is a return from the can since is feeds directly into the grid of a gain stage. The three leads that lead into the can attach to a three individual pieces of metal, which are in turn connected to a three pieces of rubber. These three pieces of rubber then touch down on a motorized wheel. I don't see any conductive paths, so I'm wondering about how these units work.

Any information would be very helpful. Unfortunatly Tel Ray had patented this technology, so I'm guessing others opted for the simple spring type reverb. But I'd really like to hear this unit working properly. Sorry for the long message. Thanks! Derick

7/30/1999 1:23 AM
Don Symes	This sure sounds like an electrostatic delay/reverb like that Morley pedal. Is there any motor speed moulation? The metal charges the rubber, which charges a track on the wheel as it spins. One of the other two is probably the main pickup, the third might 'erase' (maybe only partially) the track. 'course I'm guessing here.

7/30/1999 4:38 AM

I type this in a couple of time a year, I guess if I was half-smart, I'd put it on my web page.

The coffee can delays are electrostatic delays like Don surmised.

the can is grounded, and contains an insulating coating inside. The inside also contains some amount of insulating oil. The driver of the thing has a brush that "charges" the insulator as it swipes by. The pickup brush senses the trapped voltage/charge, and the erase brush neutralizes the charge. The oil is there to get good operation by shielding the insulator from air, humidity, cosmic rays, etc. The operation is similar to the operation of a Van de Graff generator - at lower power, of course.

7/30/1999 5:53 PM

I slightly wondered if this was some sort of electrostatic device. Thanks for confirming my thoughts. I've never heard of such a unit considering this unit is ten years older than me. There are actually four wipers on the disk, which has no speed modulator (it's running off the ac line, 60Hz). I'll assume that the wiper with no wire connections to the rest of the circuit is the "erase" wiper. So again I'm curious about the function of the other two, non-drive wipers. The wiper with a lead directly to the grid of a stage is probably the pick up, but is the second wiper a secondary input, or output? Interesting! I guess the biggest mystery is why no signal is present on either of the two non-drive lines to the can. Also, there is oil on the bottom of the can, is this supposed to be on the disk too, sort of like Millikan's experiment. Any more info would be helpful, or if I could get direction to a site or someone who would know. Thanks again, Derick

7/30/1999 8:18 PM

I've found some information about the Tel-Ray unit. Morley actually bought Tel-Ray at some point, so it's reasonable that this sounds like the Morley electrostatic delays, Because they are! But what I need to know now is what type of oil and how much to use in the ADINEKO Memory System. I figure that you guys have dealt with the Morley pedals, so you would know the answers to my queries. I've also read some information about the fact that these oils are toxic and have a fair amount of carcinogenic content. For health reasons, I would think they wouldn't even make these types of oils anymore, so is there a reasonable substitute? Thanks in advance. Derick

8/13/1999 2:18 PM
Roger	I'm looking for an old Tel-Ray echo/vibrato unit right now (or a Fender Dimension IV). The thing about that oil is that it's rumored to be a carcinogen, so don't mess with it too much... basically, if the unit works, don't mess with it. If it doesn't, don't mess with it. Do not taunt happy fun ball.

8/13/1999 4:49 PM
R.G.	The oil inside was probably early-60's transformer oil, which was based in part on polychlorinated bi-phenyls, the dreaded PCB's. Don't mess with this stuff if you don't have to.

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