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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Sick Tweed Deluxe??

6/15/1999 1:01 PM
Mook	Sick Tweed Deluxe?? I'm very familiar with Black and Silver face Fenders, but I just got my first Tweed (a 1955 Tweed Deluxe) about 2 months ago. Now that I've played it for a couple months, I'm beginning to think my tweed might need a "checkup". I play a Les Paul with larger gauge strings and my vintage Deluxe seems to fart out..... I'm new at the "Tweed" game, so bear with me... I've heard tweeds on recordings, but I'm not sure how my tweed should sound. I like to dime the instrument volume, but that results in a very bassy and splotchy fuzz tone. When I really dig into the guitar, notes seem to "die" (compress real hard, perhaps?) out and then come back in. Any volume over "9" creates this "splotchiness". Lower volumes sound very nice and clean, but don't seem to approach the "Tweed Drive Tone" I've heard on records, such as Clapton's "From the Cradle" CD. In addition, this happens when I use a speaker attenuator (it happens without the attenuator, as well), so I'm not driving the speaker hard at all. Seems like the "splotchiness" is strickly coming from the amp. The electrolytics seem rather new. Am I expecting too much out of this little amp. Or should I be able to "dime" this amp on "12" and be able to rock out? Mook

6/15/1999 1:01 PM

Mook

Sick Tweed Deluxe??

I'm very familiar with Black and Silver face Fenders, but I just got my first Tweed (a 1955 Tweed Deluxe) about 2 months ago. Now that I've played it for a couple months, I'm beginning to think my tweed might need a "checkup". I play a Les Paul with larger gauge strings and my vintage Deluxe seems to fart out.....

I'm new at the "Tweed" game, so bear with me...

I've heard tweeds on recordings, but I'm not sure how my tweed should sound. I like to dime the instrument volume, but that results in a very bassy and splotchy fuzz tone. When I really dig into the guitar, notes seem to "die" (compress real hard, perhaps?) out and then come back in. Any volume over "9" creates this "splotchiness". Lower volumes sound very nice and clean, but don't seem to approach the "Tweed Drive Tone" I've heard on records, such as Clapton's "From the Cradle" CD.

In addition, this happens when I use a speaker attenuator (it happens without the attenuator, as well), so I'm not driving the speaker hard at all. Seems like the "splotchiness" is strickly coming from the amp. The electrolytics seem rather new.

Am I expecting too much out of this little amp. Or should I be able to "dime" this amp on "12" and be able to rock out?

Mook

6/15/1999 3:15 PM
Chris	I do believe that what you describe is how these amps usually sound at max volume. Guess the people at fender never planned on having it turned to ten. I've been told that tweed deluxe's and p-90 les pauls are how Neil Young gets his characteristic distorted tone, which I can only decribe as splotchy, and flubby. A neat sound, but not what a lot of people envision as the "perfect" sound. Take a listen to one of Neils albums. If that's what's coming out of your amp, it's probably the nature of the beast. However, if your's is behaving badly in some other manner, you certainly should do a check up on it.

6/15/1999 3:15 PM

Chris

I do believe that what you describe is how these amps usually sound at max volume. Guess the people at fender never planned on having it turned to ten. I've been told that tweed deluxe's and p-90 les pauls are how Neil Young gets his characteristic distorted tone, which I can only decribe as splotchy, and flubby. A neat sound, but not what a lot of people envision as the "perfect" sound. Take a listen to one of Neils albums. If that's what's coming out of your amp, it's probably the nature of the beast. However, if your's is behaving badly in some other manner, you certainly should do a check up on it.

6/15/1999 3:25 PM
anonymous	~~~I play a Les Paul with larger gauge strings and my vintage Deluxe seems to fart out..... I'm new at the "Tweed" game, so bear with me... @@@ Mook...this is actually pretty common. Without hearing exactly what you are hearing I would say you getting the natural "sag" or tube compression when you dime the amp. The 5Y3 will defiantely "give" quite a bit when the amp is around 8-10 on the volumes. You may want to try a 5V4 in place of the 5Y3. It doesn't "give" as much and helps tp tighten up the bass ALOT. It also doesn't break up as much as the 5Y3. ~~~I like to dime the instrument volume, but that results in a very bassy and splotchy fuzz tone. When I really dig into the guitar, notes seem to "die" (compress real hard, perhaps?) out and then come back in. @@@ Yep...that's a tweed Deluxe my man! (ha, ha) I have one as well. Try the 5V4 rectifier. See if you can get a NOS RCA but make sure it's NOS. This will help take the "compression" out of the tone. It won't remove it all together but it does help out alot. ~~~Any volume over "9" creates this "splotchiness". Lower volumes sound very nice and clean, but don't seem to approach the "Tweed Drive Tone" I've heard on records, such as Clapton's "From the Cradle" CD. @@@ When I was playing around with mine I noticed that there's the little 56K plate resistor for the 12AX7 there. If you change it to the typical 100K the compression is even worse! I have a switch wired with a 100K (on the same 12AX7 that has the 56K plate resistor) and a 68K going to the plate of the same tube but on the other side of the tube. When the amp is dimed I usually flick the 68K in pae of the stock 100K and this helps out in a big way. See what works for you Mook. ~~~Seems like the "splotchiness" is strickly coming from the amp. The electrolytics seem rather new. @@@ That's how the amp responds. Remember NO ONE ever expected anyone to turn the guitar amp passed 4 or 5 let alone 10!! (ha, ha) You could even hook up a negative feed back to the amp to control the "sag" as well. Maybe that would be more to your liking. ~~~Am I expecting too much out of this little amp. Or should I be able to "dime" this amp on "12" and be able to rock out? @@@ Just try playing with those things I suggested and you should be able to dime the amp with no problem. Humbuckers really drive this amp into overdrive heaven..that's for sure! Trace

6/15/1999 3:25 PM

anonymous

~~~I play a Les Paul with larger gauge strings and my vintage Deluxe seems to fart out.....

I'm new at the "Tweed" game, so bear with me...

@@@ Mook...this is actually pretty common. Without hearing exactly what you are hearing I would say you getting the natural "sag" or tube compression when you dime the amp. The 5Y3 will defiantely "give" quite a bit when the amp is around 8-10 on the volumes.

You may want to try a 5V4 in place of the 5Y3. It doesn't "give" as much and helps tp tighten up the bass ALOT. It also doesn't break up as much as the 5Y3.

~~~I like to dime the instrument volume, but that results in a very bassy and splotchy fuzz tone. When I really dig into the guitar, notes seem to "die" (compress real hard, perhaps?) out and then come back in.

@@@ Yep...that's a tweed Deluxe my man! (ha, ha) I have one as well. Try the 5V4 rectifier. See if you can get a NOS RCA but make sure it's NOS. This will help take the "compression" out of the tone. It won't remove it all together but it does help out alot.

~~~Any volume over "9" creates this "splotchiness". Lower volumes sound very nice and clean, but don't seem to approach the "Tweed Drive Tone" I've heard on records, such as Clapton's "From the Cradle" CD.

@@@ When I was playing around with mine I noticed that there's the little 56K plate resistor for the 12AX7 there. If you change it to the typical 100K the compression is even worse! I have a switch wired with a 100K (on the same 12AX7 that has the 56K plate resistor) and a 68K going to the plate of the same tube but on the other side of the tube.

When the amp is dimed I usually flick the 68K in pae of the stock 100K and this helps out in a big way. See what works for you Mook.

~~~Seems like the "splotchiness" is strickly coming from the amp. The electrolytics seem rather new.

@@@ That's how the amp responds. Remember NO ONE ever expected anyone to turn the guitar amp passed 4 or 5 let alone 10!! (ha, ha)

You could even hook up a negative feed back to the amp to control the "sag" as well. Maybe that would be more to your liking.

~~~Am I expecting too much out of this little amp. Or should I be able to "dime" this amp on "12" and be able to rock out?

@@@ Just try playing with those things I suggested and you should be able to dime the amp with no problem. Humbuckers really drive this amp into overdrive heaven..that's for sure!

:-)

Trace

6/15/1999 6:13 PM
SpeedRacer	Amp sounds fine. that's what they do, esp with HB pickups. Back off on the instrument volume to lose the excess bass and clear the signal up a good bit. Rectifiers will make an incremental change but most of that effect is the pre-amp/CF outputs doing their thing. Remember too that there is no -fb at work to clean up the amp. Plug a Tele in and you'll get a better feeling for what the amp was built/voiced to do. (remember, it's 1955 - No Strats, No Les Pauls, etc) 7 or 8 on the amp with the bridge pu cranking and you'll be there. Try using smaller coupling caps will help out if you really can't find a tone you're happy with. (like some .02's in the output stage maybe..) "back to the cradle" was an early tweed Twin, which is a totally different animal; it has an almost bassman-esque quality to it due to the pre-amp topology.

6/15/1999 6:13 PM

SpeedRacer

Amp sounds fine. that's what they do, esp with HB pickups. Back off on the instrument volume to lose the excess bass and clear the signal up a good bit. Rectifiers will make an incremental change but most of that effect is the pre-amp/CF outputs doing their thing. Remember too that there is no -fb at work to clean up the amp. Plug a Tele in and you'll get a better feeling for what the amp was built/voiced to do. (remember, it's 1955 - No Strats, No Les Pauls, etc) 7 or 8 on the amp with the bridge pu cranking and you'll be there. :-)

Try using smaller coupling caps will help out if you really can't find a tone you're happy with. (like some .02's in the output stage maybe..)

"back to the cradle" was an early tweed Twin, which is a totally different animal; it has an almost bassman-esque quality to it due to the pre-amp topology.

6/15/1999 9:53 PM
Bruce C	Re: Brighten it up! Try reducing the cathode cap on the first gain stage to, say, .68uF a la Marshall, or even smaller. That will brighten things up quite a bit, which will help reduce that muddiness. Also, .02uF coupling caps might help (as suggested already). Good luck!

6/17/1999 9:01 AM
Dave H.	Re: Sick Tweed Deluxe?? Mook. I know you’re not keen on output stage -ve f/b but it may remove some of the mud.. It did on my home-made 5E3. I removed the 25u Ck from the stage driving the PI and connected a 56k resistor from that stage’s cathode to the non grounded side of the speaker. Dave

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