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70's Fender Humbuckers Reissues

9/12/1999 2:23 AM
JR	70's Fender Humbuckers Reissues Anybody have an opinion on these pickups that come in the reissues of 70's tele customs and Thinlines? I just Broke down and sold my beloved 73 tele custom due to severely needing a refret. At around $300 for a refret I decided to sell it and picked up a nice Japanese 50's reissue tele with an awesome "V" neck, but I'm longing for that awesome "Keith Richards" tone the custom had. Yeah I've considered gibson reissue pickups, but i really loved the tone of the Fender bucker (am I the only one?) I haven't been able to find original on the net and i am considering the Fender Reissues. However, none of the shops around here have any guitars with them in them, but they can order the reissues. So, has anyone tried them?

9/12/1999 2:23 AM

70's Fender Humbuckers Reissues

Anybody have an opinion on these pickups that come in the reissues of 70's tele customs and Thinlines?

I just Broke down and sold my beloved 73 tele custom due to severely needing a refret. At around $300 for a refret I decided to sell it and picked up a nice Japanese 50's reissue tele with an awesome "V" neck, but I'm longing for that awesome "Keith Richards" tone the custom had. Yeah I've considered gibson reissue pickups, but i really loved the tone of the Fender bucker (am I the only one?) I haven't been able to find original on the net and i am considering the Fender Reissues. However, none of the shops around here have any guitars with them in them, but they can order the reissues. So, has anyone tried them?

9/14/1999 6:35 PM
Doc	The '70s reissue HB pickup and the original '70s Fender/Seth Lover HB pickup are not constructed the same. They sound distinctly different, too. The original has a much more clearer sound to my ears, compared to a bit of veiling or smearing on the standard gibson type bar magnet coil pair. BTW, if you get to see any of the recent Stones concert videos, you'll notice that many of Keef's telecasters have standard style humbuckers in the neck position and aftermarket flat chromed bridge plates with six (6) individual cast "strat-type" saddles, which I guess he prefers for more accurate intonation. He uses a Tele Custom occasionally. I have a japanese RI Tele Custom (which will be made in mexico from now on) which I like, except for the neck pickup. The bridge pickup even sounds ok, which was surprising. I haven't removed the soldered metal cover from the neck pickup yet, but have removed a pole screw to determine if it is in fact an actual magnet. It is not, which means there has to be some kind of common bar magnet along the bottom of the coils like a standard Gibson/Seth Lover HB pickup. The HB pickup in my RI guitar has much more hum than a humbucker should, so I figured it might have a slight defect (maybe unmatched coils). I ordered a replacement pickup (only because, like you, I tried searching for a real one with negative results) through a fender dealer 4 months ago. It's still on backorder. Have you actually seen one of these replacement pickups in a store's showcase (I never have), or are you perusing a Frontline catalog and imagining you'll order one? I suspect when my replacement pickup finally arrives, it will be exactly the same construction as the one in my guitar. Back when the fender HB pickup was developed, the magnetic material used in the pole screws was soft enough to be threaded with then present-day tool bits. Tungsten carbide was not available as it is today. Someone could easily thread alnico 2 rods to make fairly weak individual adjustable pole pieces required for the "sound" you hear from the real one. There's obviously a demand for the '70s humbucker. Where are the innovators? They don't even have to make the entire pickup, just the internals (coils & magnets) which could be retrofitted into the RI fender case(base bracket & cover). This type of pickup will sound much closer to the original than that botched-up look-alike supplied with the RI tele customs & thinlines. P.S. Beware of certain dealers telling you the replacement one is an exact replacement of a '70s pickup. One gentleman posted on this bbs of such a disappointing experience. He didn't say which dealer, though.

9/14/1999 6:35 PM

Doc

The '70s reissue HB pickup and the original '70s Fender/Seth Lover HB pickup are not constructed the same. They sound distinctly different, too. The original has a much more clearer sound to my ears, compared to a bit of veiling or smearing on the standard gibson type bar magnet coil pair. BTW, if you get to see any of the recent Stones concert videos, you'll notice that many of Keef's telecasters have standard style humbuckers in the neck position *and* aftermarket flat chromed bridge plates with six (6) individual cast "strat-type" saddles, which I guess he prefers for more accurate intonation. He uses a Tele Custom occasionally.

I have a japanese RI Tele Custom (which will be made in mexico from now on) which I like, except for the neck pickup. The bridge pickup even sounds ok, which was surprising. I haven't removed the soldered metal cover from the neck pickup yet, but have removed a pole screw to determine if it is in fact an actual magnet. It is not, which means there has to be some kind of common bar magnet along the bottom of the coils like a standard Gibson/Seth Lover HB pickup. The HB pickup in my RI guitar has much more hum than a humbucker should, so I figured it might have a slight defect (maybe unmatched coils). I ordered a replacement pickup (only because, like you, I tried searching for a real one with negative results) through a fender dealer 4 months ago. It's *still* on backorder. Have you actually seen one of these replacement pickups in a store's showcase (I never have), or are you perusing a Frontline catalog and imagining you'll order one? I suspect when my replacement pickup finally arrives, it will be exactly the same construction as the one in my guitar.

Back when the fender HB pickup was developed, the magnetic material used in the pole screws was soft enough to be threaded with then present-day tool bits. Tungsten carbide was not available as it is today. Someone could easily thread alnico 2 rods to make fairly weak individual adjustable pole pieces required for the "sound" you hear from the real one. There's obviously a demand for the '70s humbucker. Where are the innovators? They don't even have to make the entire pickup, just the internals (coils & magnets) which could be retrofitted into the RI fender case(base bracket & cover). This type of pickup will sound much closer to the original than that botched-up look-alike supplied with the RI tele customs & thinlines.

P.S. Beware of certain dealers telling you the replacement one is an exact replacement of a '70s pickup. One gentleman posted on this bbs of such a disappointing experience. He didn't say which dealer, though.

9/14/1999 7:29 PM
Gus	Doc what is the thread size???? and magnet length?

9/14/1999 8:40 PM
nic	I knew Doc didn't like this neck pick up... I remember when he posted a thread about a real Fender Humbucker. I was confused (and still am) by some of his thoughts on the reissue. I do understand that the poles are not magnets, I also unscrewed mine to see. For some reason I thought since my tele is an earlier reissue (circa '82-'84) that the pick up poles would be actual magnets. My HB doesn't hum as Doc describes. I do love my Japanese RI Tel Custom though! I bought it used in Japan for 20,000 yen. I have to admit though I have never heard an original Fender HB. nic

9/14/1999 8:40 PM

nic

I knew Doc didn't like this neck pick up... I remember when he posted a thread about a real Fender Humbucker. I was confused (and still am) by some of his thoughts on the reissue. I do understand that the poles are not magnets, I also unscrewed mine to see. For some reason I thought since my tele is an earlier reissue (circa '82-'84) that the pick up poles would be actual magnets. My HB doesn't hum as Doc describes. I do love my Japanese RI Tel Custom though! I bought it used in Japan for 20,000 yen. I have to admit though I have never heard an original Fender HB.

nic

9/14/1999 10:41 PM
nic	Doc do you know the dc resistance of your RI humbucker? I measured mine awhile back and was quite surprised how low it was compared to the SD 1/4 pounder I have in the bridge. The single coil in the bridge is a whopping 17K ohms! It still doen't sound as loud as the neck pu... nic

9/15/1999 1:12 PM
Doc	The DCR of each coil should be about 5k, or stated another way the total resistance of the series connected coils is about 10kohms. My RI pickup measured in the high 9's, but I can't recall the exact figure, but close enough to 10k. I thought that at least they got the windings right. It's the magnetic structure that's all wrong. BTW, there's a print of the original Fender assembly drawing for the '72 pickup in Duchassior's (spelling?) Telecaster book which helps explain the unusual construction of the pickup.

9/15/1999 1:12 PM

Doc

The DCR of each coil should be about 5k, or stated another way the total resistance of the series connected coils is about 10kohms. My RI pickup measured in the high 9's, but I can't recall the exact figure, but close enough to 10k. I thought that at least they got the windings right. It's the magnetic structure that's all wrong.

BTW, there's a print of the original Fender assembly drawing for the '72 pickup in Duchassior's (spelling?) Telecaster book which helps explain the unusual construction of the pickup.

9/17/1999 3:03 PM
Doc	Gus: The "real" ones look to be about 3/16" diameter and 3/4" long (#12-24?). One end is ovaled with a screw slot milled. I took a look at the RI slugs last night (after I was finished bailing out the basement). They look to be slightly larger OD. I bet they're metric, about 4 (or 4.5?)mm dia x 1mm thread pitch. The RI's are almost an inch long. I guess a good upgrade would be to simply open up the RI pickup, remove the bar magnet (add a nonmetallic shim as a placeholder, if necessary) and insert metric threaded Alnico II pole pieces having less than saturation charge. I mentioned before that someone could offer magnets & coils, but it appears that a useable pickup could be had with only a handful (12) threaded magnets. The threading could be accomplished on a lathe, but you'd need alnico rods about 1-1/2" long to hold in the chuck for threading and length cutoff. The RI rods are longer than the vintage, because the ones that come thru the bottom plate have to be long enough to pass thru the thickness of coil bobbins and the bar magnet structure. When reassembling after modification, the new ones would also need the extra length if a distance spacer was necessary in the sandwich. It may turn out that the spacer could be deleted and the bottom plate sunk deeper into the cover before soldering the seam.

9/17/1999 3:03 PM

Doc

Gus:

The "real" ones look to be about 3/16" diameter and 3/4" long (#12-24?). One end is ovaled with a screw slot milled.

I took a look at the RI slugs last night (after I was finished bailing out the basement). They look to be slightly larger OD. I bet they're metric, about 4 (or 4.5?)mm dia x 1mm thread pitch. The RI's are almost an inch long.

I guess a good upgrade would be to simply open up the RI pickup, remove the bar magnet (add a nonmetallic shim as a placeholder, if necessary) and insert metric threaded Alnico II pole pieces having less than saturation charge.

I mentioned before that someone could offer magnets & coils, but it appears that a useable pickup could be had with only a handful (12) threaded magnets. The threading could be accomplished on a lathe, but you'd need alnico rods about 1-1/2" long to hold in the chuck for threading and length cutoff. The RI rods are longer than the vintage, because the ones that come thru the bottom plate have to be long enough to pass thru the thickness of coil bobbins and the bar magnet structure. When reassembling after modification, the new ones would also need the extra length if a distance spacer was necessary in the sandwich. It may turn out that the spacer could be deleted and the bottom plate sunk deeper into the cover before soldering the seam.

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