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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: Answers from a Telephile (long)

9/23/1999 2:29 PM
Fred G.	Re: Answers from a Telephile (long) Oh, yeah: I have a 6-piece bridge with barrell saddles. It is junk. A Stew-Mac tech advised me to lose that bridge ASAP and get one with the block-style saddles. Also, I have been using Graphtech saddles on my Gibsons for 6 years now. I break maybe one string a year, as compared to one a night beforehand. Fred G.

9/23/1999 3:36 PM
Doc	The individual block type saddles are inherently more stable than the flimsy trunnions that came on that Nashville, but they are cast white metal. They'll give you about as good a tone as the cast saddles on a '79 strat. The GraphTechs are good, but stand out as looking aftermarket because of their black color. A thick brass bridgeplate doesn't give the same enhancement to the pickup's magnetic field as ferrous steel does. In my experience, the best tele tone is obtained using the stock stamped pan bridge with three 5/16" diameter smooth brass barrel saddles. A tele doesn't really sound like a tele without the old style bridge. If you have extra money, there are boutique saddles available with non-perpendicular intonation screws (look on a Nocaster relic to see what angles are used...No, Fender won't sell them to you), but really, the stock straight (perpendicular) ones work out fine. A tele's a canoe paddle. Perfect intonation isn't mandatory. Check the Angela.com site (under guitar parts)for a good price on the '52 reissue bridge plate + saddles. (Both Gus & I bought a few from there and it's the genuine article.) IMHO, you won't be disappointed with the results.

9/23/1999 3:36 PM

Doc

The individual block type saddles are inherently more stable than the flimsy trunnions that came on that Nashville, but they are cast white metal. They'll give you about as good a tone as the cast saddles on a '79 strat. The GraphTechs are good, but stand out as looking aftermarket because of their black color. A thick brass bridgeplate doesn't give the same enhancement to the pickup's magnetic field as ferrous steel does. In my experience, the best tele tone is obtained using the stock stamped pan bridge with three 5/16" diameter smooth brass barrel saddles. A tele doesn't really sound like a tele without the old style bridge. If you have extra money, there are boutique saddles available with non-perpendicular intonation screws (look on a Nocaster relic to see what angles are used...No, Fender won't sell them to you), but really, the stock straight (perpendicular) ones work out fine. A tele's a canoe paddle. Perfect intonation isn't mandatory. Check the Angela.com site (under guitar parts)for a good price on the '52 reissue bridge plate + saddles. (Both Gus & I bought a few from there and it's the genuine article.) IMHO, you won't be disappointed with the results.

9/23/1999 11:17 PM
whineowah phreek	A tele doesn't really sound like a tele without the old style bridge. HEAR HEAR.

9/29/1999 1:59 AM
Ted Matsumura	I've heard this before, and read about it in a guitar repair book I have. What's the magic, is it the physical/mechanical aspects of the tele bridge, or is it the magnetic/ferrousness (or both?)

9/29/1999 8:54 PM
Doc	We think that it is the extra mechanical contact force of two strings holding the larger mass brass barrel in place that affors better vibration transfer or sustain. Also the distance between the height adjustment screws is wider than on the individual (one-per-string) saddles, which tends to couple to a larger area of the baseplate diaphragm.

10/2/1999 6:17 AM
Ted Matsumura	Thanks, this answers the mechanical benefit of the 3 wide double string saddles. What about ferrous vs plated brass or pot metal for tone? P. 2 of the Complete Guide to Guitar & Amp maintenance by Fliegler indicates this is almost mandatory for great tone. Do any of the current repros or Calif teles/fat teles (or any current production tele) have ferrous non potted brass, non potted metal bridges?

10/2/1999 6:17 AM

Ted Matsumura

Thanks, this answers the mechanical benefit of the 3 wide double string saddles.

What about ferrous vs plated brass or pot metal for tone? P. 2 of the Complete Guide to Guitar & Amp maintenance by Fliegler indicates this is almost mandatory for great tone.

Do any of the current repros or Calif teles/fat teles (or any current production tele) have ferrous non potted brass, non potted metal bridges?

10/5/1999 3:17 PM
Doc	Whether the saddles are made of brass or steel may not make a difference, as long as they were at least 5/16" in diameter and 2-strings wide. Cast white metal makes poor saddles when you're looking for sustain. Why do many players of CBS-era strats change the saddles back to (actually lighter weight) stamped steel vintage strat saddles? A steel bridgeplate has an enhancement effect on the single coil pickup's magnetic field shape & strength presented to the vibrating strings. Any tele-type guitar you see with a thin metal bridge plate with 3-sided flange around it will have the bridgeplate made out of steel. You can't effectively die stamp a thick (say 1/8") steel plate into the required shape, and a softer metal like brass wont be strong enough at 1/16" thichness or less. The consensus is that a steel bridgeplate is part of the correct "tele sound". There was some discussion here a while back regarding Barden pickups, and other twin-coil humbucking tele bridge pickups. There was a mention which made sense to me that the steel bridgeplate alters the mag field in a way that degrades the performance of this type pickup. I think it was Barden's & Danny Gatton's research when developing the Barden pickups that brought this out. Apparently the Barden pickup sounds better, and more like we expect a tele to sound like, when it's magnetic field is not disturbed with a magnetic plate surrounding it. Danny's guitar has a 300-series (essentially nonmagnetic) stainless steel bridgeplate. A flat brass plate (like the shape used on an Am Std tele or an aftermarket bridge) would have also worked magnetically, but it wouldn't look vintage or have the same mechanical vibration characteristics as the thinner steel stamping with the vintage barrel saddles. I think that the thinner steel plate has a better chance to vibrate as a diaphragm than a thicker folded steel or brass plate. A thick plate is too rigid, and doesn't vibrate as a diaphragm beneath the saddle height adjustment screws. I'm gonna have to find out the reason why most of Keith Richards' stage teles are retrofitted with the thick flat bridgeplate (like on current fender models) and what appears to be the strat-type individual cast saddles. I'm assuming the bridge pickups are still single coils, but don't know for sure. If it was only for ease of setting intonation & action height there's always the compensated brass barrels (can be seen on the nocaster relic) that can be used with the stock steel bridge plate. That setup would give better sustain and keep the rather distict tele tone we hear from vintage instruments.

10/5/1999 3:17 PM

Doc

Whether the saddles are made of brass or steel may not make a difference, as long as they were at least 5/16" in diameter and 2-strings wide. Cast white metal makes poor saddles when you're looking for sustain. Why do many players of CBS-era strats change the saddles back to (actually lighter weight) stamped steel vintage strat saddles?

A steel bridgeplate has an enhancement effect on the single coil pickup's magnetic field shape & strength presented to the vibrating strings. Any tele-type guitar you see with a thin metal bridge plate with 3-sided flange around it will have the bridgeplate made out of steel. You can't effectively die stamp a thick (say 1/8") steel plate into the required shape, and a softer metal like brass wont be strong enough at 1/16" thichness or less. The consensus is that a steel bridgeplate is part of the correct "tele sound".

There was some discussion here a while back regarding Barden pickups, and other twin-coil humbucking tele bridge pickups. There was a mention which made sense to me that the steel bridgeplate alters the mag field in a way that degrades the performance of this type pickup. I think it was Barden's & Danny Gatton's research when developing the Barden pickups that brought this out. Apparently the Barden pickup sounds better, and more like we expect a tele to sound like, when it's magnetic field is not disturbed with a magnetic plate surrounding it. Danny's guitar has a 300-series (essentially nonmagnetic) stainless steel bridgeplate. A flat brass plate (like the shape used on an Am Std tele or an aftermarket bridge) would have also worked magnetically, but it wouldn't look vintage or have the same mechanical vibration characteristics as the thinner steel stamping with the vintage barrel saddles.

I think that the thinner steel plate has a better chance to vibrate as a diaphragm than a thicker folded steel or brass plate. A thick plate is too rigid, and doesn't vibrate as a diaphragm beneath the saddle height adjustment screws.

I'm gonna have to find out the reason why most of Keith Richards' stage teles are retrofitted with the thick flat bridgeplate (like on current fender models) and what appears to be the strat-type individual cast saddles. I'm assuming the bridge pickups are still single coils, but don't know for sure. If it was only for ease of setting intonation & action height there's always the compensated brass barrels (can be seen on the nocaster relic) that can be used with the stock steel bridge plate. That setup would give better sustain and keep the rather distict tele tone we hear from vintage instruments.

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