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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: Noiseless Pickups

8/5/1999 3:22 AM
Mark Hammer	Re: Noiseless Pickups Evans pickups (which I've mentioned here on more than one occasion) used a Z-like design, except that the two coils were end to end, and packaged inside one Strat-sized cover/housing, rather than askew as in the G&L.. As well, unlike the Z-pickups, the polepieces were not visible or adjustable. I dropped into the factory around 1989, discussed the design with the two guys who cranked them out, and watched them being made, so I have a reasonable sense about their design. They were used by Jeff Healey, Colin James, and apparently Stevie Ray Vaughan on one or two guitars (I have no confirmation, but my working assumption is that with both Colin and Evans being Canadian products, Colin must have introduced SRV to them when he opened up for SRV on a Canadian tour. Again, I'm just guessing here.). I haven't heard hide nor hair of Evans since 1990, so I don't know if the guys are still in business anymore. The pickup itself yielded acceptable cluck-tone in Strat positions 2 and 4, but tended to be a mite too strident for my tastes. That that may reflect the tendency of known players to use em with Tube Screamers all the time, rather than anything inherent in the design itself. The Evans guys told me that they felt stacked buckers (like the Fender noiseless design) simply couldn't nail "the sound" in comparison to the end-to-end design. Having built a few stacked buckers (two plastic bucker bobbins, with holes reamed out to allow alnico polepieces to slide through, although the standard Fender-sized polepieces don't go clear through both bobbins), they may have something there. It's QUIET for sure, but lacks punch; a decent jazz rhythm pickup. One of the things I've always wondered about is whether the design of end-to-end humbuckers resulted in an unusual response for the middle two strings (which would be at the ends of the coils, with overlapping but opposite fields). If so, I'm wondering whether this is effectively compensated for by polepiece characteristics (e.g., height), or by carefuly selecting coil or magnet parameters to result in resonances that mimic string balance. Alternatively, maybe the Z-design is intended to get around such a problem. I realize that wacko sometimes sells, but I expect a common-sense company like G&L would probably use a standard-sized housing unless they really needed to do otherwise. Maybe the skewed design creates enough of a distance between the ends of the coils that the two fields don't interfere with each other.

8/5/1999 3:22 AM

Mark Hammer

Re: Noiseless Pickups

Evans pickups (which I've mentioned here on more than one occasion) used a Z-like design, except that the two coils were end to end, and packaged inside one Strat-sized cover/housing, rather than askew as in the G&L.. As well, unlike the Z-pickups, the polepieces were not visible or adjustable. I dropped into the factory around 1989, discussed the design with the two guys who cranked them out, and watched them being made, so I have a reasonable sense about their design. They were used by Jeff Healey, Colin James, and apparently Stevie Ray Vaughan on one or two guitars (I have no confirmation, but my working assumption is that with both Colin and Evans being Canadian products, Colin must have introduced SRV to them when he opened up for SRV on a Canadian tour. Again, I'm just guessing here.).

I haven't heard hide nor hair of Evans since 1990, so I don't know if the guys are still in business anymore. The pickup itself yielded acceptable cluck-tone in Strat positions 2 and 4, but tended to be a mite too strident for my tastes. That that may reflect the tendency of known players to use em with Tube Screamers all the time, rather than anything inherent in the design itself.

The Evans guys told me that they felt stacked buckers (like the Fender noiseless design) simply couldn't nail "the sound" in comparison to the end-to-end design. Having built a few stacked buckers (two plastic bucker bobbins, with holes reamed out to allow alnico polepieces to slide through, although the standard Fender-sized polepieces don't go clear through both bobbins), they may have something there. It's QUIET for sure, but lacks punch; a decent jazz rhythm pickup.

One of the things I've always wondered about is whether the design of end-to-end humbuckers resulted in an unusual response for the middle two strings (which would be at the ends of the coils, with overlapping but opposite fields). If so, I'm wondering whether this is effectively compensated for by polepiece characteristics (e.g., height), or by carefuly selecting coil or magnet parameters to result in resonances that mimic string balance.

Alternatively, maybe the Z-design is intended to get around such a problem. I realize that wacko sometimes sells, but I expect a common-sense company like G&L would probably use a standard-sized housing unless they really needed to do otherwise. Maybe the skewed design creates enough of a distance between the ends of the coils that the two fields don't interfere with each other.

8/5/1999 7:39 PM
Gus	I own a G&L SHZ3 They have their own sound they have a high output and almost 0 hum. I friend has a rebuilt 70's strat with VV sound very stock to me without the noise. There might be something about stock strat pickups with older lower gain amps that the noise "helps" somehow (ear brain physiology?)

9/19/1999 7:00 AM
Ed	I tried out the G&L Camanche today and it sounded cool but I also wanted to try out the S5oo with the MFD single coil pickups, but they did not have any in stock, has any one tried these out, and compared them? I saw a user comments on Harmony central, only one comanche and a ton of S500's but not much other than the Z-3 coils were quieter and had more output than a standard single coil, That Comanche was a real player, but I was only able to get clean sounds, which sounded pretty good but the amps that they had were awful especially in the distortion channel. And there is no other G&L dealer aroud so just wondered what some of you guys thought about those different pickups? maybe it would be better to get the standard S500 with MFD single's and modify pickups later? I also want to incorporate a GK-2 Roland or similar set-up to run a VG-8 later on, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks Ed

9/19/1999 7:00 AM

I tried out the G&L Camanche today and it sounded cool but I also wanted to try out the S5oo with the MFD single coil pickups, but they did not have any in stock, has any one tried these out, and compared them? I saw a user comments on Harmony central, only one comanche and a ton of S500's but not much other than the Z-3 coils were quieter and had more output than a standard single coil, That Comanche was a real player, but I was only able to get clean sounds, which sounded pretty good but the amps that they had were awful especially in the distortion channel. And there is no other G&L dealer aroud so just wondered what some of you guys thought about those different pickups? maybe it would be better to get the standard S500 with MFD single's and modify pickups later? I also want to incorporate a GK-2 Roland or similar set-up to run a VG-8 later on, so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks Ed

8/3/1999 1:50 PM
Gus	looking at the cutaway of the fender the "new" thing about the stacked pickup seems to be the soft steel plate between the coils (shunting the mag field away from the lower coil and enclosed part of the magnet???) I looked at the Kinman awhile ago the if I remember correctly the pickups had magnet in the top coil and metal slugs(soft steel/iron????) in the bottom coil with a H shaped metal plate to keep the top coil field isolated from the lower coil. WHO was the first with the metal magnet field Plate and proper Indutance and proper resistance????????????

8/3/1999 1:50 PM

Gus

looking at the cutaway of the fender the "new" thing about the stacked pickup seems to be the soft steel plate between the coils (shunting the mag field away from the lower coil and enclosed part of the magnet???) I looked at the Kinman awhile ago the if I remember correctly the pickups had magnet in the top coil and metal slugs(soft steel/iron????) in the bottom coil with a H shaped metal plate to keep the top coil field isolated from the lower coil.

WHO was the first with the metal magnet field Plate and proper Indutance and proper resistance????????????

8/5/1999 11:49 AM
Andrew	Re: Kinman Pickups Kinman changed his design at some point (probably about a year ago) but I had a set of the old pickups and IIRC they were pretty much like you describe: magnets in the top coil, ? in the bottom coil, and a metal shield that wrapped over the coils and between them. (These were his HX8 '58 and HX15 pickups). I dunno how different the current crop are. I bought those in late '97, so I'd bet that Chris beat Fender to the punch on these. I also recall that the problems with DiMarzio which have led to distributio in the US being impeded were something really stupid like the pickup colour or somesuch... Check Dejanews for a post from Chris Kinman or Charles Neville in one of the guitar newsgroups. If you want to get them over there, I'm sure you could mail order. Web site: http://www.kinman.com FWIW, I personally think the Kinmans kick serious butt. Both the current ones and the old ones. The current ones are a little more Strat-like, IMHO. Cheers Andrew

8/5/1999 11:49 AM

Andrew

Re: Kinman Pickups

Kinman changed his design at some point (probably about a year ago) but I had a set of the old pickups and IIRC they were pretty much like you describe: magnets in the top coil, ? in the bottom coil, and a metal shield that wrapped over the coils and between them. (These were his HX8 '58 and HX15 pickups). I dunno how different the current crop are.

I bought those in late '97, so I'd bet that Chris beat Fender to the punch on these. I also recall that the problems with DiMarzio which have led to distributio in the US being impeded were something really stupid like the pickup colour or somesuch... Check Dejanews for a post from Chris Kinman or Charles Neville in one of the guitar newsgroups. If you want to get them over there, I'm sure you could mail order. Web site: http://www.kinman.com

FWIW, I personally think the Kinmans kick serious butt. Both the current ones and the old ones. The current ones are a little more Strat-like, IMHO.

Cheers

Andrew

8/6/1999 3:29 PM
anonymous	Re: Noiseless Pickups Bill Lawrence? Does anyone how his pickups sound?

8/6/1999 10:36 PM
FJR	"REMINTON ELECTRIC SHAVER...DO YOUR HAIRY LEGS A FAVOR"... In my AMERICAN STANDARD I'm using "TEXAS-SPECIALS" in neck & middle...DIMARZIO VIRTUAL "SOLO" in bridge pos...DIMARZIO is "dead-quiet"...& is @ twice as loud as the "TEXAS-SPECIAL" bridge PU I removed...Frank.

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