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Cone cry from Weber speaker

9/28/2000 3:53 PM
Matt	Cone cry from Weber speaker I've tried the WeberVST Blue Dogs (30 watt rating) which sound great but even my little SF Princeton caused cone cry. I then got a Thames and a Chicago (both 80 watt ratings) and they sound almost as good but even those experience cone cry but at higher volumes. WeberVST said that they could send me some "dope" for the surrounds that would help but would also change the character of the speaker. Anybody tried this "dope" for the surrounds? Does it eliminate the cone cry or just just reduce it? Does it alter the tone significantly? Anybody else experiencing this cone cry as I am? Any help in this area would be appreciated. And I should point out that WeberVST has been very reponsive to my problem and before the cone cry kicks in, the speakers sound great.

9/28/2000 3:53 PM

Matt

Cone cry from Weber speaker

I've tried the WeberVST Blue Dogs (30 watt rating) which sound great but even my little SF Princeton caused cone cry. I then got a Thames and a Chicago (both 80 watt ratings) and they sound almost as good but even those experience cone cry but at higher volumes. WeberVST said that they could send me some "dope" for the surrounds that would help but would also change the character of the speaker. Anybody tried this "dope" for the surrounds? Does it eliminate the cone cry or just just reduce it? Does it alter the tone significantly? Anybody else experiencing this cone cry as I am? Any help in this area would be appreciated. And I should point out that WeberVST has been very reponsive to my problem and before the cone cry kicks in, the speakers sound great.

9/28/2000 8:21 PM
Erik E	I'm not sure i know what you are refering to as "cone cry".I put a Blue Dog in my '65 Deluxe and have not heard anything unusual,even though i was a bit concerned about putting a 30 watt speaker in a 22 watt nonmaster amp.If you are hearing the same problems even with an 80 watt speaker you should consider that the answer might be something in your amp or guitar.A 15-20 watt amp should not stress an 80 watt speaker.

9/28/2000 8:21 PM

Erik E

I'm not sure i know what you are refering to as "cone cry".I put a Blue Dog in my '65 Deluxe and have not heard anything unusual,even though i was a bit concerned about putting a 30 watt speaker in a 22 watt nonmaster amp.If you are hearing the same problems even with an 80 watt speaker you should consider that the answer might be something in your amp or guitar.A 15-20 watt amp should not stress an 80 watt speaker.

9/29/2000 1:47 AM
Ed	I think Weber is over rated,over priced and "too technical." BUT, it's probably your amp. Cone cry???

9/29/2000 10:38 AM
GouxMan	I have heard the term "cone cry" in reference to Celestion speakers, but I am not clear what sound that is you speak of. If you are refering to a slight crackle in the attack, then my Celestions and Oxfords both do that as they break up. If you are refering to a separate tone, a lower "difference tone " or sub harmonic note that is not the fundamental note, then my opinion is that it is almost always caused by the amp. All my BF Fenders do this to some degree when pushed hard, and I assume yours does too. Marshalls do it. The worst by far are the class A Vox style amps, where the sub tone is very pronounced. Some people love that sound. Personally, I don't care for it, but I have to admit it is rarely audible when playing with a band. GouxMan

9/29/2000 10:38 AM

GouxMan

I have heard the term "cone cry" in reference to Celestion speakers, but I am not clear what sound that is you speak of. If you are refering to a slight crackle in the attack, then my Celestions and Oxfords both do that as they break up. If you are refering to a separate tone, a lower "difference tone " or sub harmonic note that is not the fundamental note, then my opinion is that it is almost always caused by the amp. All my BF Fenders do this to some degree when pushed hard, and I assume yours does too. Marshalls do it. The worst by far are the class A Vox style amps, where the sub tone is very pronounced. Some people love that sound. Personally, I don't care for it, but I have to admit it is rarely audible when playing with a band. GouxMan

9/29/2000 3:01 PM
Peter S	GouxMan, All amps produce these subharmonics to a certain extent. I agree that Vox style amps do it to an annoying extent. I've never heard the term "cone cry" before, but some speakers will produce ghost notes. I have also found that many guitar amp cabinets, especially ones that are made of plywood will resonate at certain frequencies and generate tones that come directly from the structure of the cabinet itself. Peter

9/29/2000 3:01 PM

Peter S

GouxMan,
All amps produce these subharmonics to a certain extent. I agree that Vox style amps do it to an annoying extent. I've never heard the term "cone cry" before, but some speakers will produce ghost notes. I have also found that many guitar amp cabinets, especially ones that are made of plywood will resonate at certain frequencies and generate tones that come directly from the structure of the cabinet itself.

Peter

9/29/2000 4:05 PM

Gil Ayan

quote:
"I have heard the term "cone cry" in reference to Celestion speakers, but I am not clear what sound that is you speak of. If you are refering to a slight crackle in the attack, then my Celestions and Oxfords both do that as they break up. If you are refering to a separate tone, a lower "difference tone " or sub harmonic note that is not the fundamental note, then my opinion is that it is almost always caused by the amp. "

Hey GouxMan, there are a couple of different things going on... What Celestion speakers are famous (infamous?) for is "edge yowl," a phenomenon which manifests itself with a (or a few) subharmonic note(s). It typically happens are considerable volume levels and when you're playing higher in the the register. I discovered this problem a long time ago, when I was playing a Boogie with a single Celestions speaker. I thought my power supply caps were probably going, but in the end... an EVM12L speaker fixed the problem. That is one of the reasons I started using EVs and never looked back.

Now, if you use Celestions in 2x12s, the effect is more subtle. If you use them in 4x12, it's barely audible. What cuases this? As I said,it takes a loud amp and the punchier and bassier the amp, the worse the problem gets. Ihave heard two theories: one is that the voice coil begins to crap out and so this funny notes appear, the other one is that it is a phasing characteristic of the Celestion speaker.

[GouxMan: for what it's worth, I didn't hear any edge yowl coming from your Celestion-loaded TH 2x12 cabinet, for example.]

However, there are other "lightweight speakers" (those being anything but EVs, JBLs or Altec-Lansing) that exhibit the same behavior, so I don't know what to thingk. For those interested, somewhere in one of the articles at the Mesa Boogie web site, they talk about "edge yowl" in Celestion speakers and mention that some people hate it, some people don't mind it at all.

For those of you fans of Robben Ford's, there is a great example of edge yowl in the "Jimmy Witherspoon Live at the Mint" CD, recorded with the RF band as backup of a few years ago. I was at the club during the show, and heard the thing in person. This is a shortly after Robben had switched from EVs to Celestions... In the first tune, especially, the guitar will sound like it's hoarse, almost like a poorly tuned radio station. That is the best example of edge yowl on record I have ever heard.

Cheers,

Gil

9/29/2000 4:40 PM
Matt	The "edge yowl" that Gil refers to sounds like the very same thing I'm talking about when I say "cone cry". I got the term "cone cry" from Ted Weber himself, maybe it's a Weber term. "Edge yowl" is a little more descriptive of the sound though. Interestingly, I've never heard it from any of my Celestions. But I run my Vintage 30's in 2x12 closed-back or 4x12 closed-back format and the original G10-35's in a '71 4x10 Marshall cab, so maybe that's why.

9/29/2000 4:40 PM

Matt

The "edge yowl" that Gil refers to sounds like the very same thing I'm talking about when I say "cone cry". I got the term "cone cry" from Ted Weber himself, maybe it's a Weber term. "Edge yowl" is a little more descriptive of the sound though.
Interestingly, I've never heard it from any of my Celestions. But I run my Vintage 30's in 2x12 closed-back or 4x12 closed-back format and the original G10-35's in a '71 4x10 Marshall cab, so maybe that's why.

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