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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Fender Deluxe

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4/11/2000 11:34 PM

Fender Deluxe

I've played with a few Fender Tweed Deluxe designs, and am wondering which is the more popular, the 5d3, or the 5e3 type? Also do most players jumper channels as they would a bassman or a marshall? To me, the 5d3 seemed a bit brighter. ALSO do most people use the 12ay7 as the input staage, or do they up it to a 12at or 12ax7? I am just looking for general opinions here. All the options sound good, but I want to know what the general consensus is as to which more people like (as a side note, which model did Billy Gibbons record all the classic zztop albums with?).
as another side note, a good substitute for the 12ay7 is a 12av7 (12ay7 has a gain of 41, whereas a 12av7 has a gain of 40, which is close enough for rock and roll, and a hell of a lot cheaper!)

4/12/2000 1:11 AM

Well I would say the 5E3 is easily the more popular.
As far as jumping the channels, I think the it is not as neccessary as in some of the bigger amps. The stock setup allows ample gain by just plugging into the #1 input and turning it up, of course you do get more dirt, but it seems to swamp the 6V6s.

IMHO, I would not use an 12AT7 in a tweed deluxe in any position. The 12AY7 is smooth and vintage sounding. The 12ax7 again may be too much for the 6v6's but works great if you switch to 5881/6L6'. I like a 5751 personally, with a good 12ay7 as the runner up.

4/12/2000 2:02 PM

quote:
"The 12ax7 again may be too much for the 6v6's but works great if you switch to 5881/6L6'. I like a 5751 personally, with a good 12ay7 as the runner up."

Ever try the 12av7? You can get NOS for VERY cheap, and the gain factor is only a 40 vs. the 41 of the 12aY7 (which are getting rediculously priced!!). In fact, due to tolerances, it woudnt surprise m that som 12ay7's will test weaker than some 12av7's... really close.
Also, which Deluxe model was Billy Gibbons known to use on the older ZZtop stuff? and does anyone know if he used a 12ay7 input or somehting hotter?

4/14/2000 5:28 PM
Jim Jones	Which Deluxe used on early ZZ albums? Hey Rebel, I'm curious about this, too. Thought I'd send it back to the top. Jim

4/15/2000 3:44 AM
SpeedRacer	If I had to guess I'd say a 5E3.. you can't beat 'em!

4/14/2000 10:30 PM

Re: Fender Deluxe

I'm with Rebel on these 12AV7's when you don't want the full gain of a 12AX7, and a 12AU7 is just too weak.

With a high-gain setup the 12AV7 might not even have less volume or be cleaner than a 12AX7, but it contributes a different tone to the distortion than you get with 12AY7 or 12AT7.

I got a few of the 5965 military version of the 12AV7 and like them a lot. Also if you tweak the plate and cathode resistors, depending on the B+, you can safely dissipate about twice the wattage compared to a 12AX7. So a circuit optimized for a 5965 with about 2watts of dissipation per triode will safely run hotter than a 12AX7 and still have less gain, but more of a meaty sound.

4/15/2000 7:03 AM

quote:
"With a high-gain setup the 12AV7 might not even have less volume or be cleaner than a 12AX7, but it contributes a different tone to the distortion than you get with 12AY7 or 12AT7."

Quite frankly, I cant hear a bit of difference between an old 12ay7 I have laying around or any of the 12av7's... then again, the 12ay7 I have is a bit old, and tests to about 92% on my tube tester, which the 12av7 tests at 100%, so the gain is probably closer here. I dont think even new, however, you would hear much difference in a gain factor of 40 vs 44... now an at7 has a gain of 60 or 70 if I recall, and that is quite a bit different, and a 12ax7 at gain of 100, is MUCH different... Then again, comparing 12v7 from mfr. a will sound different than a 12av7 from mfr. b... I'm logically deducing that tere would be really very little if any audible difference between a 12av7 and a 12ay7 from the same mfr.. I would go as far as to bet they are the same tube, just labelled according to the mu of the tube.... Besides, when you are talking less than $2 per 12av7 vs $15, $20, or even more per 12ay7, the differences in sound become even less noticeable. Another thought to ponder... put a 12 ay7 in an amp where the resistors have drifted to the + side of the 10% tolerance, and put the 12ay7 in the same amp after putting in resistors that are closer to spec, I'm thinking the gap between the sound would get tighter.

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