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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: What clone the best to build?

5/31/2000 8:47 PM
Rebel420	Re: What clone the best to build? The breadboarding of the amp is on a stripped Traynor YBA-2B (the 2xel84 powered bass amp), in fact the power seciton is almost intact, it's just hte preamp and PI that have been changed... and hold on to your seat, but it runs at about 398vdc onthe plates of the el84s!... I added an adjustable bias, just because things are on the edge

6/1/2000 3:33 AM
Bryan James	but it runs at about 398vdc onthe plates of the el84s!... man i take it you had a good drink before turning it on i would have been nevours running el84 at that B+. the 30 watt (4 el84) amp i got also has the bias adjuster. i have about 290volts on the plate. but i now i'm pushing the pt. knowing your at 398 moving to a transformer that would give me 320-350v of a B+ doesn't worry me as much. since i just got a dynaco st-70. i'll rebuild the power supply of the 30watt. the question i had with the hiwatt is the cathode fallower feeding PI seems weird the way they chose to to that

6/1/2000 3:33 AM

Bryan James

but it runs at about 398vdc onthe plates of the el84s!...

man i take it you had a good drink before turning it on

i would have been nevours running el84 at that B+.
the 30 watt (4 el84) amp i got also has the bias adjuster. i have about 290volts on the plate. but i now i'm pushing the pt. knowing your at 398 moving to a transformer that would give me 320-350v of a B+ doesn't worry me as much. since i just got a dynaco st-70. i'll rebuild the power supply of the 30watt. the question i had with the hiwatt is the cathode fallower feeding PI seems weird the way they chose to to that

6/1/2000 1:03 PM
Rebel420	Actually, it didn't bother me a bit to run it like that.... I ran the chassis as a Traynor for quite some time with the mullard el84's that were in there, and evne thou it spec'd at 398vdc on the schematic, i got about 405v on the plates then!!! when i re-did it, and biased it right, it came down to about 395... no worrys here!!

5/31/2000 11:53 AM

BWilliamson

quote:
"I want a amp to build that has a great clean sound and a very sweet distortion channel that has a sweet singing distortion that isnt metal sounding but warm with lotsa harmonic content and sustain."

The conclusions I've come to is this...

One Amp, One Optimal Tone....You can work in little mods that can be switched in and out to make it more versitile to a point. But that's it IMHO.

Two channel amps=Compromises somewhere. Seperate preamps into a single power-amp, it's really hard to optimize the ouput section for both if each channel is to be at it's best performance. I really like my Clumble clone, and it gets better with each tweak for the most part. Sure there are other amps that are also out there that are really good. But it seems the amps everybody raves about are tweaked for one GOD-TONE.

I hear all the time about X-amp that has a great clean channel. But the distortion is lacking. Or the opposite with great OD but no decent clean. Compromises are made with the intention of what the designers really wanted out of the amp. The rest is just fluff. Mostly for poeple who wouldn't consider a single channel amp.

quote:
"To me the Soldano is a nice hi gain amp but I miss having a great clean sound as I get in my Fender twin reverb."

To me this says--A/B Box is the solution. Not as practical but hey.

And I had the best time with a Pod over the weekend--what does that tell you about my opinions.

bw

6/1/2000 4:39 AM
Steve Ahola	BW: One Amp, One Optimal Tone... It sure seems to work out that way! However, if you can find two amp designs that share the same voltages and PI design, you should be able to couple them together successfully. Find a third and a fourth, and you are ready to rock! But if you just try to mix and match your favorite amps without regard to the voltage requirements, et al, you are in for a big disappointment. My project to build a BFSR and a 5F6A clone in the same chassis just kind of fizzled out because the voltage requirements were too diverse and the PI's are quite different. One amp that does a good job of capturing 3 different sounds with little compromise is the Mesa Boogie Maverick. When you change channels it switches the power supply rails and the bias voltage so it is really like two separate amps in one chassis. (The third sound is the crunch mode for the Rhythm channel.) To accomplish silent switching, the Maverick mutes the output signal briefly (and probably the signal going into the reverb tank as well). That is the last store-bought amp I REALLY WANTED TO GET... --Thanks! Steve Ahola P.S. My D'Clone has a great clean sound and a great OD sound... But it doesn't get a good BF sound.

6/1/2000 4:39 AM

Steve Ahola

BW:

One Amp, One Optimal Tone...

    It sure seems to work out that way! However, if you can find two amp designs that share the same voltages and PI design, you should be able to couple them together successfully. Find a third and a fourth, and you are ready to rock!

    But if you just try to mix and match your favorite amps without regard to the voltage requirements, et al, you are in for a big disappointment. My project to build a BFSR and a 5F6A clone in the same chassis just kind of fizzled out because the voltage requirements were too diverse and the PI's are quite different.

    One amp that does a good job of capturing 3 different sounds with little compromise is the Mesa Boogie Maverick. When you change channels it switches the power supply rails and the bias voltage so it is really like two separate amps in one chassis. (The third sound is the crunch mode for the Rhythm channel.) To accomplish silent switching, the Maverick mutes the output signal briefly (and probably the signal going into the reverb tank as well). That is the last store-bought amp I REALLY WANTED TO GET...

--Thanks!

Steve Ahola

P.S. My D'Clone has a great clean sound and a great OD sound... But it doesn't get a good BF sound.

5/31/2000 8:18 PM
Joe L	I know what you mean Mitch, my tweaked to death Boogie Mark III clone could get a smooth distortion that just dripped with singing harmonics on the front pickup and sounded great on the rear but had terrible dynamics between Clean and crunch distortion levels. It was either full thottle or it sucked. The SLO clones have a very aggressive rock sound in Lead mode and the Crunch mode is really usable, but like you, the Clean is not anything to get exciting about. The tone is kinda flat and it's lacking the rich harmonics I get from the VibroClone even when nothing is being driven into clipping. Now on to the X88R preamp. Great Lead sound although very aggressive like the SLO but with more gain and compression/sustain. Think of an SLO with a tone shift/emphasis up a hundred hz or so. We are talking EVH! Also, when you roll back on the guitar volume, you get the perfect rock rhythm sound. Think crunchy with adequate dynamics and perfect Marshall type tone and excellent definition. The Clean is sparkly bright with lots of low end but not exactly like a Fender. The mid-scoop occurs at the hottest range of a humbucking rear pickup on a strat type guitar which makes the rear pickup just as good for clean sounds as the front pickup. Position 2 and 4 on a strat are studio quality and very useable, especially for the 80s chorus/reverb clean type sound. Front pickup sound is more Robert Cray than SRV but really nice for blues. The Crunch channel is disappointing. There is something about the tone that just doesn't sound good to my ears and I rarely use it. I've been meaning to throw it on the bench for a closer look but have confirmed it does match the schematic. I'm reserving judgement until I can take a good look at it. Now the Vibroclone. Great for blues at any gain level and downright nasty with the Tube Screamer adding a bit of drive with the amp volume on 4-5. Perfect for a classic rock gig with my 4-12 Marshall cabinet and a Boss DS-1 for the leads. Overall not as high quality a sound as the X88R but it was cheap and quick to make out of the old SF Bassman I've been torturing with rebuilds for 20+ years. You've built one of these also so I'm sure you know what I mean. From the run down condition all my equipment was in last year at this time, I couldn't be happier with what I have to play through now. Like you I'm still looking for the perfect amp but occasionally I think I hear it when the song, guitar, amp, mood and fingers are right. ..Joe L

5/31/2000 8:18 PM

Joe L

I know what you mean Mitch, my tweaked to death Boogie Mark III clone could get a smooth distortion that just dripped with singing harmonics on the front pickup and sounded great on the rear but had terrible dynamics between Clean and crunch distortion levels. It was either full thottle or it sucked.

The SLO clones have a very aggressive rock sound in Lead mode and the Crunch mode is really usable, but like you, the Clean is not anything to get exciting about. The tone is kinda flat and it's lacking the rich harmonics I get from the VibroClone even when nothing is being driven into clipping.

Now on to the X88R preamp. Great Lead sound although very aggressive like the SLO but with more gain and compression/sustain. Think of an SLO with a tone shift/emphasis up a hundred hz or so. We are talking EVH!

Also, when you roll back on the guitar volume, you get the perfect rock rhythm sound. Think crunchy with adequate dynamics and perfect Marshall type tone and excellent definition.

The Clean is sparkly bright with lots of low end but not exactly like a Fender. The mid-scoop occurs at the hottest range of a humbucking rear pickup on a strat type guitar which makes the rear pickup just as good for clean sounds as the front pickup. Position 2 and 4 on a strat are studio quality and very useable, especially for the 80s chorus/reverb clean type sound. Front pickup sound is more Robert Cray than SRV but really nice for blues.

The Crunch channel is disappointing. There is something about the tone that just doesn't sound good to my ears and I rarely use it. I've been meaning to throw it on the bench for a closer look but have confirmed it does match the schematic. I'm reserving judgement until I can take a good look at it.

Now the Vibroclone. Great for blues at any gain level and downright nasty with the Tube Screamer adding a bit of drive with the amp volume on 4-5. Perfect for a classic rock gig with my 4-12 Marshall cabinet and a Boss DS-1 for the leads. Overall not as high quality a sound as the X88R but it was cheap and quick to make out of the old SF Bassman I've been torturing with rebuilds for 20+ years. You've built one of these also so I'm sure you know what I mean.

From the run down condition all my equipment was in last year at this time, I couldn't be happier with what I have to play through now. Like you I'm still looking for the perfect amp but occasionally I think I hear it when the song, guitar, amp, mood and fingers are right.

..Joe L

5/31/2000 9:19 PM
SpeedRacer	speaking of SLO clean tones.. has anyone ever just added a BF style pre-amp to one and mixed it in at the PI? Skip the normal "compressed" clean tone and get a real clean pre-amp going.. for about $5, it seems like a worthwhile investment.

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