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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: That's right, no noticeable differences

3/2/2000 2:47 AM
John S.	Re: That's right, no noticeable differences Thanks again R.G. The TI RC 4558 chip sounds pretty good and isn't quite as noisy as my JRC 4558 DD....I'm still curious to see how the new Mouser chips will sound.Actually after the mod to 808,the TA 75558 chip was happening also.Now I'm really confused! Anyway,I put an 8 pin socket in mine,and have been just popping in and out the different chips....If oyur fast enough you can actually hear the tonal differences.....This is anal,but it is also fun.Soon I will figure out the secret ingredient for my pedal and my tastes,and this will be what really matters.I do enjoy the opinions though,so keep them coming....John S.

3/2/2000 2:47 AM

John S.

Re: That's right, no noticeable differences

Thanks again R.G. The TI RC 4558 chip sounds pretty good and isn't quite as noisy as my JRC 4558 DD....I'm still curious to see how the new Mouser chips will sound.Actually after the mod to 808,the TA 75558 chip was happening also.Now I'm really confused! Anyway,I put an 8 pin socket in mine,and have been just popping in and out the different chips....If oyur fast enough you can actually hear the tonal differences.....This is anal,but it is also fun.Soon I will figure out the secret ingredient for my pedal and my tastes,and this will be what really matters.I do enjoy the opinions though,so keep them coming....John S.

3/2/2000 3:44 PM
Jim S.	I stopped using Tubescreamers years ago. All this discussion about op amp chips reminds me of those phony taste-test beer commercials they used to show on TV -- where some "man on the street" compares Budweiser to Coors or Miller, or some other pale-yellow horse-pee. I'd much rather drink a good microbrew ale.

3/2/2000 9:50 PM
John S.	Jim...you are right this is why I am trying out different op amps in my TS9....I want to see if all of the hype is true with my own ears......John S.

3/2/2000 9:53 PM

Trace

quote:
"I stopped using Tubescreamers years ago."

I'm not sure I follow as to why you are posting this here(?) Peopl are looking for opinions on chips, at least that's my understanding of the thread.

quote:
"All this discussion about op amp chips reminds me of those phony taste-test beer commercials they used to show on TV -- where some "man on the street" compares Budweiser to Coors or Miller, or some other pale-yellow horse-pee. I'd much rather drink a good microbrew ale. "

So if you do not use tube screamers anymore and prefer microbrew over commercial beers then what do you recommend? Forgive my ignorance but I'm not following you on this because the post is asking for opinions on the differences between the chips? So what compares to your microbrews in this case?

Just curious
Trace

3/2/2000 10:04 PM
John S.	To Jim the "Beer Commercial Guy" LOL :o) Hey Jim....what's with the attitude? Missing your tube screamer are ya.....Send me yours and I'll tweak er up real nice for ya bro! LOL Why don't all of you attitude guys find another website to cry on..It was peoples opinions I wanted,not attitudes.Oh well,guess we all can't be perfect Rock On Jim!....John S....

3/3/2000 5:47 AM
Jim S.	Oops... it looks like I've gotten myself into trouble... Let me explain: First of all, I speak from experience. About two years ago, I did mod two of my friend's original TS-9's to TS-808 specs. One came stock with the "good" chip and other came stock with the "bad" chip. I replaced the "bad" chip in that one and did the resistor replacement thing in both. There certainly were noticeable differences in both pedals due to these changes. The tone was mellowed out and slightly fattened up. Definitely worthwhile for someone who likes using Tubescreamers. And certainly the TS-9 reissue really could use some help. However... even after being modded, I felt that these TS-9s still suffered from the same basic problems. Too much compression (especially if the gain control was turned up much above the minimum setting) and an unnatural EQ that boosted midrange frequencies at the expense of bass and treble frequencies (loss of transparency). Admittedly, the bass response was helped somewhat by the mods. I just can't help feeling that there are now better choices out there for overdrive pedals, even including ones that are loosely based upon the Tubescreamer-type circuit (such as Fulldrive II) but have substantial changes that give a less-compressed and more natural sound. Good examples of recent overdrive pedals that sound more realistic (at least to my ears) are the Stamps Drive-O-Matic (also an op-amp/clipping diode based circuit, as far as I can tell) and the Blackstone MOSFET overdrive (no clipping diodes used at all). I'm not trying to hype these in particular; I'm sure there are some other really good overdrives out there that I haven't tried yet. Tubescreamers have there place, but I think it's a limited application. They only seem to work really well with single-coil pickups, with the gain all the way off (or nearly so) and plugged into an amp that is turned loud enough where it is starting to overdrive. Especially with the TS-808 mod, there is a nice "humbuckerization effect" (due to the midrange EQ hump) that fattens things up a bit and helps with the sustain. Where Tubescreamers disappoint is when the amp is set to play fairly clean (which may be necessary in a small club). Now, in order to get enough sustain and dirt, you need to turn the gain knob to 12 o'clock or more, and then things compress too much and you lose dynamics and touch sensitivity. At least, this has been my experience. So...if you enjoy playing through a Tubescreamer, then by all means, experiment with the different chips and mods, and have fun. The differences are not really that drastic, but they are there. In addition, if you have the time, it's worth checking out some of the other overdrives that have come out in just the last few years. We've come a long way since 1978. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers.

3/3/2000 5:47 AM

Jim S.

Oops... it looks like I've gotten myself into trouble...

Let me explain:

First of all, I speak from experience. About two years ago, I did mod two of my friend's original TS-9's to TS-808 specs. One came stock with the "good" chip and other came stock with the "bad" chip. I replaced the "bad" chip in that one and did the resistor replacement thing in both. There certainly were noticeable differences in both pedals due to these changes. The tone was mellowed out and slightly fattened up. Definitely worthwhile for someone who likes using Tubescreamers. And certainly the TS-9 reissue really could use some help.

However... even after being modded, I felt that these TS-9s still suffered from the same basic problems. Too much compression (especially if the gain control was turned up much above the minimum setting) and an unnatural EQ that boosted midrange frequencies at the expense of bass and treble frequencies (loss of transparency). Admittedly, the bass response was helped somewhat by the mods.

I just can't help feeling that there are now better choices out there for overdrive pedals, even including ones that are loosely based upon the Tubescreamer-type circuit (such as Fulldrive II) but have substantial changes that give a less-compressed and more natural sound. Good examples of recent overdrive pedals that sound more realistic (at least to my ears) are the Stamps Drive-O-Matic (also an op-amp/clipping diode based circuit, as far as I can tell) and the Blackstone MOSFET overdrive (no clipping diodes used at all). I'm not trying to hype these in particular; I'm sure there are some other really good overdrives out there that I haven't tried yet.

Tubescreamers have there place, but I think it's a limited application. They only seem to work really well with single-coil pickups, with the gain all the way off (or nearly so) and plugged into an amp that is turned loud enough where it is starting to overdrive. Especially with the TS-808 mod, there is a nice "humbuckerization effect" (due to the midrange EQ hump) that fattens things up a bit and helps with the sustain.

Where Tubescreamers disappoint is when the amp is set to play fairly clean (which may be necessary in a small club). Now, in order to get enough sustain and dirt, you need to turn the gain knob to 12 o'clock or more, and then things compress too much and you lose dynamics and touch sensitivity. At least, this has been my experience.

So...if you enjoy playing through a Tubescreamer, then by all means, experiment with the different chips and mods, and have fun. The differences are not really that drastic, but they are there. In addition, if you have the time, it's worth checking out some of the other overdrives that have come out in just the last few years. We've come a long way since 1978.

Sorry if I ruffled some feathers.

3/3/2000 2:46 PM

Trace

quote:
"Sorry if I ruffled some feathers. "

You post was well spoken!

No harm, no foul. Now I get where you were coming from. Much like yourself I prefer to control the dymanics from my fingers and the guitar and I agree that the tube screamers do compress a little too much. (to be honest I do not use a tube screamer at all with my set up) but I do see a mess of guys using them.

It's a personal opinion and I respect that. We have come a long way since 1978. I can't argue that point at all! (ha, ha) Another way to look at it is that people like the older 60's plexis and we do have an awful lot of amps to choose from these days(?)

I think modern gain amps picked up where the tube screamer left off. Lots of gain and compression for those who dig it. The JCM900 is pretty much a JCM800 with a tube screamer implemented into the circuit (basically).

Anyway I see your point now!
Trace

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