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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: Opinions: most over-rated effects

12/23/1999 1:31 PM
Aron	Re: Opinions: most over-rated effects Funny you should mention this Jack. I've been wanting to post something on this for a few days now. Just too busy playing music. Anyway, I did build a new TS screamer based on the SOS and modifications on the net and the FAT screamer mod at GFR's site. I gave it more gain at the op amp and I've been subbing different clippers. Yes, this thing certainly doesn't sound as good as the Shaka 3 (IMHO). Not even close. You are right, the bass rolloff (fixed with GFR's mod), the muffled sound (due to the filters after the clippers) and the overall lack of "punch" and edge does nothing for me. YET........ How can this be the basis for the Tone Pump, Vox Valvetone, Burn Unit (maybe), Fulldrive, etc...???? I mean, what the heck is going on? How can the Tone Pump have all that amazing transparency and amazing sound etc.... I find it hard to believe and I would quickly dismiss it as hype except a quick check of guitarists I like use the TS! Scott Henderson, Jimmy Herring, Mike Landau - they all use it. I saw Jazz is Dead and Jimmy Herring was using a TS and got a great sound. What is going on? I guess I don't know how to _use_ the pedal. Aron

12/23/1999 1:31 PM

Aron

Re: Opinions: most over-rated effects

Funny you should mention this Jack. I've been wanting to post something on this for a few days now. Just too busy playing music. :-)

Anyway, I did build a new TS screamer based on the SOS and modifications on the net and the FAT screamer mod at GFR's site. I gave it more gain at the op amp and I've been subbing different clippers.

Yes, this thing certainly doesn't sound as good as the Shaka 3 (IMHO). Not even close. You are right, the bass rolloff (fixed with GFR's mod), the muffled sound (due to the filters after the clippers) and the overall lack of "punch" and edge does nothing for me.

YET........ How can this be the basis for the Tone Pump, Vox Valvetone, Burn Unit (maybe), Fulldrive, etc...???? I mean, what the heck is going on? How can the Tone Pump have all that amazing transparency and amazing sound etc.... I find it hard to believe and I would quickly dismiss it as hype except a quick check of guitarists I like use the TS!

Scott Henderson, Jimmy Herring, Mike Landau - they all use it. I saw Jazz is Dead and Jimmy Herring was using a TS and got a great sound.

What is going on? I guess I don't know how to _use_ the pedal.

Aron

12/23/1999 6:50 PM
AMZ	>>What is going on? I guess I don't know how to _use_ the pedal. My guess is that most of it has to do with the amp. My TS-9 or SoS sound MANY times better going through my tube-based AX84 than through my very clean solid-state Yamaha. So many effects are based on the TS model - maybe these guys would switch if they had a chance to hear something to compare it to that had a really smooth open sound. Aron, you've played lots of boutique pedals. Any of them stand out above the TS clones? regards, Jack

12/23/1999 6:50 PM

AMZ

>>What is going on? I guess I don't know how to _use_ the pedal.

My guess is that most of it has to do with the amp. My TS-9 or SoS sound MANY times better going through my tube-based AX84 than through my very clean solid-state Yamaha.

So many effects are based on the TS model - maybe these guys would switch if they had a chance to hear something to compare it to that had a really smooth open sound.

Aron, you've played lots of boutique pedals. Any of them stand out above the TS clones?

regards, Jack

12/23/1999 7:51 PM
Aron	See, that's the problem. I think almost every pedal I have played sounds better than a TS The Varidrive is very good of course - but it's so smooth that it can make your guitar get lost in the mix. I still think it's way better than the TS. The Hotcake has much more oomph and presence than the TS. The Shaka 3 has more brilliance and dynamics. The Klon, voiced as it is, has more of a midrange cut and harmonics. To me, the TS restricts your dynamic range, cuts too much highs and lows. I just don't like it. I still respect the fact that people are getting a good sound out of it. I will be working with mine over the holiday. Aron

12/23/1999 7:51 PM

Aron

See, that's the problem. I think almost every pedal I have played sounds better than a TS :-)

The Varidrive is very good of course - but it's so smooth that it can make your guitar get lost in the mix. I still think it's way better than the TS. The Hotcake has much more oomph and presence than the TS. The Shaka 3 has more brilliance and dynamics. The Klon, voiced as it is, has more of a midrange cut and harmonics.

To me, the TS restricts your dynamic range, cuts too much highs and lows. I just don't like it. I still respect the fact that people are getting a good sound out of it. I will be working with mine over the holiday.

Aron

12/23/1999 8:34 PM
hys chip	sounds muffled ??cuts too much highs and lows.?? yep it has a low end roll off "to me""IMO" "your milage may very" and all the standard disclaimers.... this sounds good with a loud tube amp..and in fact gives me more punch and less mud at high volumes.... I dont hear a cut in the high end at all.. and have to turn the tone knob down on both my keen clone and all my clone ts's or its way to trebly sounding...I am puzzeled by this.. could the buffers be doing somthing here..I have not built a s.o.s. so I am unshure how that one sounds.. I dont hear a muffled sound at all..mid peak yes low end roll-off yes..and more treble than I need.. chippser

12/23/1999 8:34 PM

hys chip

sounds muffled ??cuts too much highs and lows.?? yep it has a low end roll off "to me""IMO" "your milage may very" and all the standard disclaimers.... this sounds good with a loud tube amp..and in fact gives me more punch and less mud at high volumes....
I dont hear a cut in the high end at all.. and have to turn the tone knob down on both my keen clone and all my clone ts's or its way to trebly sounding...I am puzzeled by this..
could the buffers be doing somthing here..I have not built a s.o.s. so I am unshure how that one sounds..
I dont hear a muffled sound at all..mid peak yes
low end roll-off yes..and more treble than I need..
chippser

12/23/1999 10:55 PM
Lee Glenn	I have seen losta of opinions good and bad about the various screamers. My experience involves an original TS9 that I have recently mod'ed to 808 (2 resistors changed). Originally I bought it cheap from a friend ~15 years ago and was completely unimpressed and prefered my DOD 250 for Overdrive sounds and my Fender Distortion for real noise. At the time I was using a real piece of shit Fender Stage Lead solid state. I went to a MusicMan 65 212, solid state pre, tube power and the TS became useful. Now I'm using a Mesa Studio Cal. and the TS sounds great if I keep the Mesa clean and just push it with the TS. I recently did the 808 mod and think that it seems "smoother" (creamier). Of course my band does a wide range of stuff so the TS only fits about ~20% of what we do so I generally go between: Clean Mesa Clean Mesa + DOD 250 Clean Mesa + TS Clean Mesa plus Fender Dist Crunch Mesa And some more variations as well as chorus, wah, etc. All sounds seem to have a place. If it maters, I usually use a LP Studio. The bridge pickup has a coil cut so when I need some more variations.... later

12/23/1999 10:55 PM

Lee Glenn

I have seen losta of opinions good and bad about the various screamers. My experience involves an original TS9 that I have recently mod'ed to 808 (2 resistors changed). Originally I bought it cheap from a friend ~15 years ago and was completely unimpressed and prefered my DOD 250 for Overdrive sounds and my Fender Distortion for real noise. At the time I was using a real piece of shit Fender Stage Lead solid state.

I went to a MusicMan 65 212, solid state pre, tube power and the TS became useful. Now I'm using a Mesa Studio Cal. and the TS sounds great if I keep the Mesa clean and just push it with the TS. I recently did the 808 mod and think that it seems "smoother" (creamier).

Of course my band does a wide range of stuff so the TS only fits about ~20% of what we do so I generally go between:

Clean Mesa
Clean Mesa + DOD 250
Clean Mesa + TS
Clean Mesa plus Fender Dist
Crunch Mesa
And some more variations as well as chorus, wah, etc.

All sounds seem to have a place.

If it maters, I usually use a LP Studio. The bridge pickup has a coil cut so when I need some more variations....

later

12/24/1999 5:55 AM
Aron	I guess what I mean is that I like my pedals to add some high end to the sound - kind of like an exciter in a way. The screamers all sound too dark to me. I've played lots of real ones and my own copies and I just don't like it. I played one today for a couple of clients and they agreed as well that the other pedals I had sounded better than the TS. I don't sound terribly muffled, until you insert another pedal and A/B them. Then you realize what you are missing. I guess what I am saying is that I don't hear a clear high end - just restricted highs. Look at the circuit, there is a low pass filter right after the clippers. Believe me, this thing is cutting highs. You can really hear it on certain setups. Anyway, I'm going to fool around with it a bit more and see how things go. Thanks! Aron

12/24/1999 5:55 AM

Aron

I guess what I mean is that I like my pedals to add some high end to the sound - kind of like an exciter in a way. The screamers all sound too dark to me. I've played lots of real ones and my own copies and I just don't like it. I played one today for a couple of clients and they agreed as well that the other pedals I had sounded better than the TS. I don't sound terribly muffled, until you insert another pedal and A/B them. Then you realize what you are missing. I guess what I am saying is that I don't hear a clear high end - just restricted highs. Look at the circuit, there is a low pass filter right after the clippers. Believe me, this thing is cutting highs. You can really hear it on certain setups.

Anyway, I'm going to fool around with it a bit more and see how things go.

Thanks!

Aron

12/24/1999 11:24 AM

AMZ

quote:
"don't sound terribly muffled, until you insert another pedal and A/B them. Then you realize what you are missing. I guess what I am saying is that I don't hear a clear high end - just restricted highs."

You hit it right on the head. I was going to say that the TS is like putting a veil over the sound. Cutting the highs of the clipped sound are what I believe that many people are associating with a smooth or creamy sound, when in fact it's not. If you took the 1st 3 stages of a Big Muff and added a TS opamp tone control on the output, you would also have a smooth-type sound. (There's an after-Xmas project for you!)

Like you said, A/B it next to another pedal and the difference jumps out at you.

regards, Jack

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