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Vintage threads from the first ten years

M. Hammer/E. Rembold Re: Tube Screamer Experts

12/6/1999 11:00 PM
Joe Fuzz	M. Hammer/E. Rembold Re: Tube Screamer Experts This is a reply to your guys' advice on the tube screamer. (The original messages have scrolled off into the ether.) I tried your suggestions to tame the "fizziness" I was hearing. Upping the input cap helped a little but none of the other mods seemed to. I even added a second LPF after the distortion stage turning the net LPF into a second order filter cornered around ~750 Hz. Finally, I realized it was time to try Something Else. So I put the thing back to stock (except for the input cap), got out the minibooster and put it in front of the Tube Screamer. Suddenly, there it was -- the fullness that had been missing. What I'm going to do is get one of those Boss EQ pedals and, instead of changing the characteristic curve of the device, I'm going to change the characteristic curve of the Input to the device, if you get my drift. The minibooster is pretty much a flat boost so it wasn't quite perfect but it definately pointed me in the right direction. Thanks for your help, guys!

12/6/1999 11:00 PM

Joe Fuzz

M. Hammer/E. Rembold Re: Tube Screamer Experts

This is a reply to your guys' advice on the tube screamer. (The original messages have scrolled off into the ether.)

I tried your suggestions to tame the "fizziness" I was hearing. Upping the input cap helped a little but none of the other mods seemed to. I even added a second LPF after the distortion stage turning the net LPF into a second order filter cornered around ~750 Hz.

Finally, I realized it was time to try Something Else. So I put the thing back to stock (except for the input cap), got out the minibooster and put it in front of the Tube Screamer. Suddenly, there it was -- the fullness that had been missing.

What I'm going to do is get one of those Boss EQ pedals and, instead of changing the characteristic curve of the device, I'm going to change the characteristic curve of the Input to the device, if you get my drift. The minibooster is pretty much a flat boost so it wasn't quite perfect but it definately pointed me in the right direction.

Thanks for your help, guys!

12/7/1999 2:36 PM
Mark Hammer	1) I wouldn't consider myself an "expert on this, merely a guy with a lot of opinions, and enough chutzpah to voice them (maybe not such a good thing). What I excel at is dumb little modifications to simple aspects of the circuit that people have stopped thinking about. Amazing how easy it is to look clever when others (i.e., companies) go out of their way to look dumb. But thanks for the vote of confidence anyways. 2) Six little words: signal level, signal level, signal level. Folks tend to forget that clipping is a level-dependent phenomenon. Just as people under 5 feet tend not to bang their heads against the ceiling or stoop much, so do weaker signals fail to clip in a consistent manner. Guitars can vary substantially in terms of how much the pickups put out, and within each of those tiers, vary even more depending on player style and pick attack. I suspect that at least part of what you refered to as "fizziness" was inconsistent clipping, brought on by a signal that would fluctuate around the clipping threshold (although I could be wrong). The miracle cure of the minibooster MAY have been partly attributable to solving some prevailing impedance mismatch problems, but more than likely simply goosed the level up enough to keep you consistently about clipping threshold. Incidentally, this is also one reason why many distortion devices sound MUCH better with a high output compressor ahead of them. Now that you've got me thinking about it, I wonder if folks who play through instruments with lipstick pickups (a thinner-sounding lower output pickup as I understand it) have a different opinion of many of the popular distortion units than do folks with humbuckers. 3) Your EQ solution is spot on.

12/7/1999 2:36 PM

Mark Hammer

1) I wouldn't consider myself an "expert on this, merely a guy with a lot of opinions, and enough chutzpah to voice them (maybe not such a good thing). What I excel at is dumb little modifications to simple aspects of the circuit that people have stopped thinking about. Amazing how easy it is to look clever when others (i.e., companies) go out of their way to look dumb. But thanks for the vote of confidence anyways.

2) Six little words: signal level, signal level, signal level. Folks tend to forget that clipping is a level-dependent phenomenon. Just as people under 5 feet tend not to bang their heads against the ceiling or stoop much, so do weaker signals fail to clip in a consistent manner. Guitars can vary substantially in terms of how much the pickups put out, and within each of those tiers, vary even more depending on player style and pick attack. I suspect that at least *part* of what you refered to as "fizziness" was inconsistent clipping, brought on by a signal that would fluctuate around the clipping threshold (although I could be wrong). The miracle cure of the minibooster MAY have been partly attributable to solving some prevailing impedance mismatch problems, but more than likely simply goosed the level up enough to keep you consistently about clipping threshold. Incidentally, this is also one reason why many distortion devices sound MUCH better with a high output compressor ahead of them. Now that you've got me thinking about it, I wonder if folks who play through instruments with lipstick pickups (a thinner-sounding lower output pickup as I understand it) have a different opinion of many of the popular distortion units than do folks with humbuckers.

3) Your EQ solution is spot on.

12/7/1999 4:45 PM
Doc	Your mention of lower output Dano lipstick pickups has me thinking. I recently tried a Dano FabTone pedal with a regular single coil strat. With the drive control set to minimum, this pedal was too much for me. Might it sound not so rude using one of their own guitars?

12/7/1999 5:27 PM
Ed Rembold	Joe, I'm no expert either, My claim is, I've burned through enough parts, I should be in business. I agree with the Hammer, My only additional thought is this- depending on the fets you used, your minibooster is adding a little (and possibly alot) of soft assymetric (I don't know if I spelled that right) distortion. This is always nice. Ed R.

12/7/1999 9:40 PM

Joe Fuzz

Hi, Ed:

quote:
"...depending on the fets you used, your minibooster is adding a little...soft assymetric...distortion."

Only at the attack i.e. when the note is first picked. Sort of a low-key SRV sound without the singing sustain.

12/7/1999 9:32 PM

Joe Fuzz

quote:
"so do weaker signals fail to clip in a consistent manner....I suspect that at least *part* of what you refered to as "fizziness" was inconsistent clipping, brought on by a signal that would fluctuate around the clipping threshold...more than likely simply goosed the level up enough to keep you consistently about clipping threshold..."

I wasn't clear enough in my explanation there. What I was hearing was a fuller sound i.e. more bass. Essentially, the TS clips/distorts the highs and passes the lows. (For any lurkers out there, R.G.'s got a great article on the TS that explains the ins-and-outs.) The "action" I was getting out of the TS was essentially of a bandpass filter.

When I added the minibooster in front, the highs were still there, still clipped at their level, but now more lows were able to force their way through. Yes, the highs were driven /clipped a little harder, too, but they're limited so it sounded to me like the *proportions* changed -- which is why an EQ sounds like the next logical step. Force more bass through and keep the highs right where they are.

quote:
"The miracle cure of the minibooster MAY have been partly attributable to solving some prevailing impedance mismatch problems..."

In this case, I think they have comparable input impedances. TS=3Megs (according to R.G.), Minibooster=1Meg.

12/8/1999 1:21 AM
Ed Rembold	Joe, Just a little clarity- The impedances that Mark is refering to, are not the similar input Z of each item, but the difference between the output Z of a typical guitar (high Z) verses the low output Z of the minibooster (about 4hz) This higher "drive" of the minibooster is giving you the fuller sound. (but, you know this) Ed R.

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