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PC Studio Integration

3/14/1999 7:47 AM
SpeedRacer	PC Studio Integration Question: How do you see the PC fitting into the studio? As a low $ digital multitrack, as a killer editor, a great dig desk with automation or as all of the above? I ask BC I'm trying to plot my upgrade path from an aging Tascam 4tr and a bunch of outboard gear (processors, etc) that I've accumulated over the years. I can see the advantages of random access recording with multiple undo etc.. hard disk recording makes big time sense to me. But how does mixing work out? I'm used to having faders, knobs, mutes etc immediately in front of me.. mousing them seems slow and clumsy from here..(is it??) All of which leads me to thinking about picking up say a Mackie 1602 (or sim) and running the PC/SCSI disk set up from there like a fancy multitrack deck.. at which point I'm better off buying the Roland unit (mixer and SCSI based HD system all ready to go) What's a home recording junkie to do? I want to go digital, but don't want to lose my sunk investment in outboard gear. ANY thoughts etc would be welcomed here.

3/14/1999 7:47 AM

SpeedRacer

PC Studio Integration

Question: How do you see the PC fitting into the studio? As a low $ digital multitrack, as a killer editor, a great dig desk with automation or as all of the above?

I ask BC I'm trying to plot my upgrade path from an aging Tascam 4tr and a bunch of outboard gear (processors, etc) that I've accumulated over the years. I can see the advantages of random access recording with multiple undo etc.. hard disk recording makes big time sense to me. But how does mixing work out? I'm used to having faders, knobs, mutes etc immediately in front of me.. mousing them seems slow and clumsy from here..(is it??) All of which leads me to thinking about picking up say a Mackie 1602 (or sim) and running the PC/SCSI disk set up from there like a fancy multitrack deck.. at which point I'm better off buying the Roland unit (mixer and SCSI based HD system all ready to go)

What's a home recording junkie to do? I want to go digital, but don't want to lose my sunk investment in outboard gear. ANY thoughts etc would be welcomed here.

4/4/1999 4:56 AM
Steve A.	Speed: For starters, do you already have a standalone CD burner? Just a year ago a CDR/RW drive was around $400 and hard drive space was relatively expensive. These days you can buy both a CDR/RW drive and a much larger hd (necessary for digital recording) for around $400. The days of distributing your music on cassettes has passed and gone, and your target audience may not have a DAT deck. So I think that using your computer to burn cds both as masters and for distribution is a lot more cost effective than buying a stand-alone cd burner. Whether you master to DAT or to the computer is another choice. If you want to use your computer strictly to burn cds from DAT masters you will need a 2 channel digital I/O card, which retail for maybe $250 (not a lot of them around). However for $400 you can pick up something like an Event Gina card which also includes 2 analog inputs and 8 analog outputs. (The card is full duplex so you be playing back 8 tracks, running them through your mixer and effects and then back into the 2 analog inputs. While going back and forth between the analog and digital realms can introduce flaws, the specs on this card are really good and it can probably handle that better than most cards under $500.) Add up all of these costs (we're assuming that you already have a fairly new computer with a PCI 2.1 bus) and you are still way ahead of a comparable self-contained system like the Roland VS-880 or VS-1680 with the CDR add-on. While you can use a computer to run an automated mixer (Mackie sells a kit for some of their mixers), that could get to be expensive (~$2000?). It would be handy if someone made a basic controller that hooked up to your computer with maybe 16 or more knobs that you could assign to different functions in the computer mixer. This controller could be connected to your computer through MIDI or USB or even a serial port. Since it would be mainly used for mixing, why not have it look like a mixer? Something like a Mackie 1202 would give you plenty of hands-on control over your digital mix... (Now if someone will just decide to start producing them I'll buy one, too!) Steve Ahola

4/4/1999 4:56 AM

Steve A.

Speed:

    For starters, do you already have a standalone CD burner? Just a year ago a CDR/RW drive was around $400 and hard drive space was relatively expensive. These days you can buy both a CDR/RW drive and a much larger hd (necessary for digital recording) for around $400. The days of distributing your music on cassettes has passed and gone, and your target audience may not have a DAT deck. So I think that using your computer to burn cds both as masters and for distribution is a lot more cost effective than buying a stand-alone cd burner. Whether you master to DAT or to the computer is another choice.

    If you want to use your computer strictly to burn cds from DAT masters you will need a 2 channel digital I/O card, which retail for maybe $250 (not a lot of them around). However for $400 you can pick up something like an Event Gina card which also includes 2 analog inputs and 8 analog outputs. (The card is full duplex so you be playing back 8 tracks, running them through your mixer and effects and then back into the 2 analog inputs. While going back and forth between the analog and digital realms can introduce flaws, the specs on this card are really good and it can probably handle that better than most cards under $500.)

    Add up all of these costs (we're assuming that you already have a fairly new computer with a PCI 2.1 bus) and you are still way ahead of a comparable self-contained system like the Roland VS-880 or VS-1680 with the CDR add-on.

    While you can use a computer to run an automated mixer (Mackie sells a kit for some of their mixers), that could get to be expensive (~$2000?). It would be handy if someone made a basic controller that hooked up to your computer with maybe 16 or more knobs that you could assign to different functions in the computer mixer. This controller could be connected to your computer through MIDI or USB or even a serial port. Since it would be mainly used for mixing, why not have it look like a mixer? Something like a Mackie 1202 would give you plenty of hands-on control over your digital mix... (Now if someone will just decide to start producing them I'll buy one, too!)

Steve Ahola

4/4/1999 1:53 PM

Joe Fuzz

quote:
"It would be handy if someone made a basic controller that hooked up to your computer with maybe 16 or more knobs that you could assign to different functions in the computer mixer."

You mean something like this?

http://www.peavey.com/division/mi/keyboards/MIDIcontrollers/pc1600x.html

Trick is finding a sequencer that will respond to MIDI messages and seeing if there's some way to record a mixing session, if you get my drift. In other words, assign a track (if possible) to "record" the MIDI that your mixing console sends out, then use that MIDI string to control the mixing on future playbacks.

Oh, and coming up with the $400.00 to purchase the thing, too!

4/5/1999 3:49 PM
SpeedRacer	Hi Steve. First, let me thank you for posting the first reply to my old post! I was feeling pretty alone out here.. Second: I don't have a stand alone CD burner, but I do have an internal HP IDE 2X, which while not so fast, does a really nice job. I was figuring on doing some kind of SCSI hookup with the Roland interface, or maybe even a good soundcard with Digital inputs to use the PC for mastering (if I got the Roland). ..as you suggested with the Gina etc I looked at that PV link Joe put up, and that looks like just the thing for PC mixes.. although I'm confused as to whether it interfaces with popular multitrack softrawre or not.. some digging to do there. I'm also looking at bang/$ - $1600 and you can get "old" model Roland with 8-tr @ once record ability (2 Gina's right there). $2500 gets you the whole shootin' match (the new one)with abilities it's hard to touch with a PC for that price.. (I can't use my "family" PC for this duty..)

4/5/1999 3:49 PM

SpeedRacer

Hi Steve.
First, let me thank you for posting the first reply to my old post! I was feeling pretty alone out here.. :-)

Second:
I don't have a stand alone CD burner, but I do have an internal HP IDE 2X, which while not so fast, does a really nice job. I was figuring on doing some kind of SCSI hookup with the Roland interface, or maybe even a good soundcard with Digital inputs to use the PC for mastering (if I got the Roland).
..as you suggested with the Gina etc

I looked at that PV link Joe put up, and that looks like just the thing for PC mixes.. although I'm confused as to whether it interfaces with popular multitrack softrawre or not.. some digging to do there. I'm also looking at bang/$ - $1600 and you can get "old" model Roland with 8-tr @ once record ability (2 Gina's right there). $2500 gets you the whole shootin' match (the new one)with abilities it's hard to touch with a PC for that price.. (I can't use my "family" PC for this duty..)

4/5/1999 3:55 PM
Joe Fuzz	although I'm confused as to whether it interfaces with popular multitrack softrawre or not.. some digging to do there. They list a couple. You actually have to open up one of the ads to find it as I recall. Seems like it was Cakewalk and something else. The one I'm using now (Voyetra's DOP) doesn't so I really didn't dig too deep.

4/12/1999 10:09 PM
Steve A.	Speed: Well, if you'd have to buy another PC that certainly makes the Roland VS-880 a lot better looking! Check the specs to make sure that you can record 8 channels simultaneously @ 44Mhz (if you do need to record all 8 at once- my VS-840 will only do 2 tracks at a time @ 44Mhz). If portability is an issue, then that cinches it for the Roland... If the price on a cdr drive that will work with the Roland comes down a bit you could scrap the pc idea altogther. But the last time I checked I was told that you HAD to buy the Roland cdr drive and it was ridiculously overpriced. (Seems like if it was a real SCSI port that you could use ANY SCSI drive; the add-on SCSI port for the VS-840 is only good for adding a SCSI Zip drive! I guess the "brains" of the machine has to be programmed to instruct SCSI drive what to do...) It looks like prices on digital cards are dropping a bit and you probably could get a digital-only I/O board for maybe $200 for mastering your Roland recordings to cd with your HP drive (2X is plenty fast enough!) Steve Ahola

4/12/1999 10:09 PM

Steve A.

Speed:

    Well, if you'd have to buy another PC that certainly makes the Roland VS-880 a lot better looking! Check the specs to make sure that you can record 8 channels simultaneously @ 44Mhz (if you do need to record all 8 at once- my VS-840 will only do 2 tracks at a time @ 44Mhz).

    If portability is an issue, then that cinches it for the Roland... If the price on a cdr drive that will work with the Roland comes down a bit you could scrap the pc idea altogther. But the last time I checked I was told that you HAD to buy the Roland cdr drive and it was ridiculously overpriced. (Seems like if it was a real SCSI port that you could use ANY SCSI drive; the add-on SCSI port for the VS-840 is only good for adding a SCSI Zip drive! I guess the "brains" of the machine has to be programmed to instruct SCSI drive what to do...)

    It looks like prices on digital cards are dropping a bit and you probably could get a digital-only I/O board for maybe $200 for mastering your Roland recordings to cd with your HP drive (2X is plenty fast enough!)

Steve Ahola

4/13/1999 10:40 AM
Gus	Steve A. SCSI should be SCSI. Do you know what mode scsi the roland uses, some scsi 2 devices can be switched to scsi 1 etc. What is the interface spec. at the roland end? There is a site I believe it is http://blue-planet.com/tech/ that has all kinds of info on harddrives IDE SCSI and other devices.

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