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What wood is good wood?

4/1/1999 11:01 PM
Rob	What wood is good wood? Can anyone tell me if American White Ash is any good for guitars? I know Swamp Ash is what's generally regarded as the best, but I live in Australia, so it is extremely difficult to get. I just got some Alder, which should be good Thanks, Rob

4/2/1999 9:26 AM
Doc	Although there are a few different kinds of Ash trees, the wood characteristics are the same, except for water content and dry wood density. However, the tree's growing environment has a great deal to do with how the wood finally turns out. Cells which were filled with water while the tree was alive become empty fiber structures after the wood is cut and dried out. Trees which are located in dense forests have to compete with the surrounding trees for necessary water & sunlight. Since this environment produces yearly growth rings of smaller water filled cells, the dry wood is much heavier (denser) than a wood which was composed of large water filled cells. This dense version is commonly used for baseball bats. Trees growing in wetlands, like what is commonly called "Swamp Ash", take on water at a much higher rate. The growth rings are widely spaced, and the structure between them when the moisture is driven out becomes much lighter. There are places in the southern portion of n. america where wet soil is prominent. You've seen pictures of trees in florida everglades where the trees (usually Cyprus) are sitting in water all the time. Another interesting fact is that, since water is absorbed by trees from the bottum up, from the roots, lower portions of the trunk receive a greater proportion of the water. Wood harvested from the lower trunk is lighter, or less dense, than wood taken from the upper portion of the tree. So you could get wood for guitars that can be loosely referrred to as swamp ash from the lower portion of a tree grown in a north region american forest. What I'm saying is two boards from the same tree can have much different weights. Since the greater portion of the ash wood produced is not grown in a high water area, the swamp ash type can be more expensive. It's more desirable for a guitar mainly because of its lighter weight. You can find examples of guitar bodies that are not as light as what you would call swamp ash, but not excessively heavy like a '79 strat. Typical examples of reissue '52 telecasters are of this medium density ash.That wood probably came from the lower portion of a northern region ash tree. Back in the '70s, Fender (CBS) produced the bulk of their guitars using the higher density northern ash. They may have believed that heavier woods were better for sustain, but I bet it was just cheaper. I don't have a problem with the tone of these guitars (once the wimpy cast bridge saddles are replaced with the earlier stamped steel type), but some of them are damn heavy. Alder is a good all around wood for solid bodies. Until Leo found out about it, this wood was grown just to make paper pulp.

4/2/1999 9:26 AM

Doc

Although there are a few different kinds of Ash trees, the wood characteristics are the same, except for water content and dry wood density. However, the tree's growing environment has a great deal to do with how the wood finally turns out. Cells which were filled with water while the tree was alive become empty fiber structures after the wood is cut and dried out.

Trees which are located in dense forests have to compete with the surrounding trees for necessary water & sunlight. Since this environment produces yearly growth rings of smaller water filled cells, the dry wood is much heavier (denser) than a wood which was composed of large water filled cells. This dense version is commonly used for baseball bats.

Trees growing in wetlands, like what is commonly called "Swamp Ash", take on water at a much higher rate. The growth rings are widely spaced, and the structure between them when the moisture is driven out becomes much lighter. There are places in the southern portion of n. america where wet soil is prominent. You've seen pictures of trees in florida everglades where the trees (usually Cyprus) are sitting in water all the time.

Another interesting fact is that, since water is absorbed by trees from the bottum up, from the roots, lower portions of the trunk receive a greater proportion of the water. Wood harvested from the lower trunk is lighter, or less dense, than wood taken from the upper portion of the tree. So you could get wood for guitars that can be loosely referrred to as swamp ash from the lower portion of a tree grown in a north region american forest. What I'm saying is two boards from the same tree can have much different weights. Since the greater portion of the ash wood produced is not grown in a high water area, the swamp ash type can be more expensive. It's more desirable for a guitar mainly because of its lighter weight. You can find examples of guitar bodies that are not as light as what you would call swamp ash, but not excessively heavy like a '79 strat. Typical examples of reissue '52 telecasters are of this medium density ash.That wood probably came from the lower portion of a northern region ash tree.

Back in the '70s, Fender (CBS) produced the bulk of their guitars using the higher density northern ash. They may have believed that heavier woods were better for sustain, but I bet it was just cheaper. I don't have a problem with the tone of these guitars (once the wimpy cast bridge saddles are replaced with the earlier stamped steel type), but some of them are damn heavy.

Alder is a good all around wood for solid bodies. Until Leo found out about it, this wood was grown just to make paper pulp.

4/2/1999 9:35 PM
Rob	Doc, thanks for the info. this white ash that I can get my hands on must be the denser variety, or I could be getting a real bargain. this is about 1/5 the price of 'real' swamp ash, so hopefully it'll be alright. can you (or anyone else) tell me what other woods you like, or think sound good. has anyone tried any Australian woods, by any chance? i just got some really nice brazilian mahogany, which should sound great. thanks again, Rob

4/2/1999 9:35 PM

Rob

Doc,
thanks for the info. this white ash that I can get my hands on must be the denser variety, or I could be getting a real bargain. this is about 1/5 the price of 'real' swamp ash, so hopefully it'll be alright.

can you (or anyone else) tell me what other woods you like, or think sound good. has anyone tried any Australian woods, by any chance?

i just got some really nice brazilian mahogany, which should sound great.

thanks again,
Rob

4/10/1999 7:50 PM
Mark Hammer	As Doc pointed out, sometimes it's just the piece of wood, rather than the type of wood. To this I would add that I find it is the marriage of wood type, body size, and neck that produces the most desirable tone. Light necks demand light bodies, and so on. I saw a G & L "Jr." a few weeks ago that was light as a feather, made of mahogany, but with internal "tone chambers" that appear to have been routed out horizontally (presumably at right angles to the body so that when the two bookmatched halves of the body were glued together you couldn't see any sign of the routing). The neck was fairly light too. This thing sustained forever. Too bad it's out of my reach, or else it woulda been in my hands as we speak. Here we have a light wood, made even lighter, but because the weight was a good match for the neck (set neck) the two components (body & neck) didn't fight each other. Look for something that seems easy to machine, and consider using routed tone chambers to lighten the load if the wood is of a heavier type. Alternatively, why not go the Les Paul route and only use a denser wood for the top.

4/10/1999 7:50 PM

Mark Hammer

As Doc pointed out, sometimes it's just the piece of wood, rather than the type of wood.

To this I would add that I find it is the marriage of wood type, body size, and neck that produces the most desirable tone. Light necks demand light bodies, and so on. I saw a G & L "Jr." a few weeks ago that was light as a feather, made of mahogany, but with internal "tone chambers" that appear to have been routed out horizontally (presumably at right angles to the body so that when the two bookmatched halves of the body were glued together you couldn't see any sign of the routing). The neck was fairly light too. This thing sustained forever. Too bad it's out of my reach, or else it woulda been in my hands as we speak. Here we have a light wood, made even lighter, but because the weight was a good match for the neck (set neck) the two components (body & neck) didn't fight each other.

Look for something that seems easy to machine, and consider using routed tone chambers to lighten the load if the wood is of a heavier type. Alternatively, why not go the Les Paul route and only use a denser wood for the top.

4/11/1999 12:57 PM
Tom Lennon	Interesting subject. I recently met someone that has a good supply of oak wood that he uses for rustic furniture. I asked if he might know why guitars are made of ash and not oak and he said the oak may not be as workable with power tools since it may "tear" when routed or otherwise shaped. Also he thought it might have a greater tendency to twist and crack til it is dry. He dries his own wood and has a tree service so he can look for likely candidates for his projects. From this thread it sounds like the qualities we seek in an electric guitar (tone, sustain) may be mutually exclusive, the tone coming from the resonance of the wood and the sustain from the mass/density of the wood that the bridge is mounted on. I was thinking of making a Tele type guitar. Anyone have any experience with the oak? Tom Lennon

4/11/1999 12:57 PM

Tom Lennon

Interesting subject. I recently met someone that has a good supply of oak wood that he uses for rustic furniture. I asked if he might know why guitars are made of ash and not oak and he said the oak may not be as workable with power tools since it may "tear" when routed or otherwise shaped. Also he thought it might have a greater tendency to twist and crack til it is dry. He dries his own wood and has a tree service so he can look for likely candidates for his projects.
From this thread it sounds like the qualities we seek in an electric guitar (tone, sustain) may be mutually exclusive, the tone coming from the resonance of the wood and the sustain from the mass/density of the wood that the bridge is mounted on.
I was thinking of making a Tele type guitar. Anyone have any experience with the oak?
Tom Lennon

4/11/1999 6:06 PM
Rob	A friend of mine made a strat copy out of oak, I've only seen it, not heard it, but I'm sure it'd be pretty good. Probably any well made guitar will sound good no matter what type of wood is used. I'm in final year mechanical engineering, I'm doing my research thesis on this topic - basically why different woods sound different. I've been a bit slack recently, so I don't have too many results yet. I did get the university to pay for some very nice samples of Alder and Mahogany, though Rob

4/11/1999 6:06 PM

Rob

A friend of mine made a strat copy out of oak, I've only seen it, not heard it, but I'm sure it'd be pretty good. Probably any well made guitar will sound good no matter what type of wood is used.

I'm in final year mechanical engineering, I'm doing my research thesis on this topic - basically why different woods sound different. I've been a bit slack recently, so I don't have too many results yet. I did get the university to pay for some very nice samples of Alder and Mahogany, though :-)

Rob

4/12/1999 9:13 AM
Earl	Is'nt Brian May's DIY Guitar made out of an oak fireplace mantel? Did I dream this or is it right?

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