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Re: semi-surprised


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2/3/1999 8:51 AM
nic
Re: semi-surprised
Had these people gotten so hung up on tone they would have 'blocked' out the creation of Birdland, pride, pride and joy, superstition, etc...  
 
How many people do you know that have only whinned about their crappy tone for the last year, with out creating a thing. I know at least one person, ME.  
 
 
So maybe I have a new hang up, picking on people who make reproduction pedals. At least it doesn't effect my perception of my own tone!  
 
 
I know there are other people in this BBS who feels the same as I do. They are smart, they stay out of it.
 
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2/3/1999 1:38 PM
tex

How do you feel about repro guitars? like a strat, tele, les paul,etc. none of the manufacture's have anything to do with the original.. just bad repros really!...how about all the repro amps?...Let me guess... you play a Parker gnat through a rocktron alligator...into a digital remodeling amplifier!!!...well at least there not repros...  
 
Jaco ripped his frets out and painted Pete's poly poxy on his finger board in search of tone...  
 
Stevie Ray used 32 amps on his last record, only used Dunlop 6100 frets and used barbed wire size strings... all in search of tone  
 
Stevie Wonder was one of the first to use synthisis on pop records and was and is always in search of new keyboard instruments...don't forget this is the guy who was running his (funky) clavinet through a wah and various other effects and guitar amps to get certain sounds...  
 
 
If there tone sucked they would not have been inspired...  
 
Honestly I don't care if musicians have effect o.c.d. or not, as long as they write great tunes...  
this is the difference between a zealot and an artist...  
 
 
just my two cents...by the way these new quarters don't sound as good as the old ones....anybody makin repros yet?  
 
Tex
 
2/3/1999 4:56 PM
nic

The tones must have sucked to some oldtimer who considered Mozart to be the only tone. Jaco, SW, SRV, The Edge are an elite few who wanted to push music 'forward' by imagining what music could sound like. I am not saying Mozart was not down with this as well. I am saying music is going backward with the 'let's look back and copy these sounds' additude. Who these days is actually trying to find new sounds???? Who is doing more than replicating the past? Yeah, I think you can manage to use a fulldrive or superhardon to make new sounds? They are sold on the wave of retro with pitches such as 'made famous by Hendrix recordings' or 'like the input's of old mixing consoles'. People want to plug in and sound just like so and so. And hell, I have a Strat and I tune flat to jam along with Hendrix or SRV. I bought a delay so I can play more sonically like The Edge. But that is not the only thing I hope to do with these things. You can't tell me that there aren't cats out there who only hope to get as far as what has already been done.  
 
To at least someone the tones we all seek hurts their ears. I am only twenty, I stayed with my grandpa for a year. His Idea of good tone is the Ventures. I don't disagree. But he seemed to disagree with my likeing of Hendrix. All he could say is 'DISTORTION yuck.' One thing I know is Hendrix didn't say I want to sound just like so and so. He had techs try to create the sounds he dreampt of, literally.  
 
Your quarter crack is cute. I'd like to hear some of the new sounds you get on your recordings. Maybe then I might feel a little better about the music I record. I will know there are people out there who obviously sounds like someone else, if you don't care about that I shouldn't care about the 'riffs' I purposely lift.  
 
nic  
 
 
I say move forward, cause history is limited. What will happen if we run out of periods to copy?
 
2/4/1999 4:13 AM
GFR

Hi nic.  
 
Just to complement some of your thoughts.  
 
Mozart was quite revolutionary for his time (as was Bach). He experimented with new ways of arranging, composing, new instruments. If you listen to music by Bach or Mozart and to other composers from the same periods, you'll note how they were really ahead of their times. Bach died without hearing some of the pieces he composed, because musicians of the time didn't have enough technique to perform them... He even invented a new tuning system (the tempered system we all use). Like you can't imagine today's pop music if it wasn't for the Beatles or Hendrix, it is hard to imagine any style of ocidental music that has not the influence of Bach or Mozart.  
 
If you look at the evolution of instruments since the the Renaissance you'll will see that the seek for better tone has always been part of music. Can you imagine today's music with violas da gamba instead of violins and clavichord instead of the piano? The market for handmade and vintage instruments for classical music has MUCH higher figures than that of electric guitar. So it may seem that the "Mozart" guys are even more worried about tone than the rock guys.  
 
Of course, a revolution doesn't happen everyday, and you can't expect everyone to be the next Bach, Stradivarius, Fender or Hendrix. The average guy will be glad if he can play like his idols. Sooner or later some very talented people will introduce new innovations in music (and us, poor mortals will follow it). That's the way it goes.  
 
As far as going for new sounds and not replicating the past, there are a few guys who go for it. Hear Steve Vai, Allan Holdsworth, the guy with Living Colour, some avant-garde jazz players. In terms of ecquipment, there's Eventide, Floyd Rose, Roland, the SynthAxe, to name a few. Not everyone thinks these contributions are worthy, but that's a matter of personal taste.  
 
I like to think that this 90's "retro" trend is a reaction to the 80's "techno" trend, when everything was overprocessed with those refrigerator looking racks. People went to the radical opposite way, just guitar and amp and maybe some old stompboxes that the racks were supposed to have killed. Grunge vs. epic metal. The disco music comeback. We now have to pick the best of each world to keep things evolving.  
 
So I agree with you, music is now moving backwards. But my optimisc way of looking at it is that it is moving backwards to get some "impulse" to go forward again.  
 
GFR
 
2/3/1999 5:30 PM
nic
sorry
I value this BBS as a resource to get the answers to the many questions I have daily. I don't want to come here to argue differing tastes. I know I'm right and I know you're right. There is no point in trying to convince another otherwise. When it's all over we'll still feel the same about all this, with only animosity. I don't want to ruin this resource for anyone, including myself. I consider myself a regular here, I have the page bookmarked at home and at work, I visit daily. I am comfortable here. The only time I am not is when I feel something about to explode.  
 
Sorry about everything, initially I meant nothing personal. I should have remembered the string about a year ago over this very same thing. The string where Mike Fuller actually came in here to duke it out with R.G. I think R.G. is right on staying out of this type of potential mess. I will try to do the same.  
 
nic
 
2/5/1999 10:56 AM
Hi

Hello all!  
What matters here is the exchange of information. Communication can be a rocky road at times, that's life. Surely we're all old enough to handle this, right? "There is nothing new under the sun" was written about 3,000 years ago. Yes, the guitar has evolved since then, so has musical notation, electric guitars, amps and fx. But we are all still playing the same root rhythms and tones our ancestors played on bone flutes and log drums a very, very long time ago. It is the individual perception of "tone", the individual player's combination of technique and creatively applying it that makes music progress. Let's not get too bogged down here. I think nic is right in the perception that some people are paralyzed by the new synth trend retro guitar trend oh mygodthere'saNEWreplacementpickup trend...  
The music is in your heart, the knowledge is in your head and the control is in your fingers. It doesn't matter what tools you use, if they're good tools and you're a good workman the work will stand up.  
Hi
 

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