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Sitar sounds followup

7/18/1997 11:41 AM
Mark Hammer	Sitar sounds followup The original documents and accompanying thread seem to have been lost during the recent Ampage "meltdown", but I thought I'd follow up with a few ideas/comments. Strangely enough, there is absolutely NO silicon germanium involved in this! I feel positively naked. The assumption of a Coral Electric Sitar (yet another of Vinnie Bell's amazing inventions) on the aforementioned song ("Hooked on a feeling", although it could also be "Cry Like a Baby" by the Box Tops, Alex Chilton's old band) is correct. If you like the sound, there is nothing terribly special about how it was produced. I discovered this around 1966 or so, when sitars were all the rage, and I was trying to figure out what I could squeeze out of my $10 Regent guitar. (I'll tell you about the five-cent acoustic fuzzbox another time). There is much more to the sound of a true sitar, not the least of which are the elevated frets and the extra drone strings, but the basic "filter-y" sound comes from the string grinding against the bridge, and sequentially eliminating various harmonics out of the plucked note as the string grinds away. On my own guitar, I produced it by simply taking the saddle out of the bridge (easily done since it was a cheap guitar). Without the saddle, the strings rested on the rearmost portion of the bridge (this was a cheapo with a sheet-metal tailpiece and a non-fixed bridge). The bridge being relatively flat, this left a tiny space between the surface of the bridge and the string along that portion of the bridge between the resting point and the fingerboard. The space was just large enough to let the string vibrate, but small enough that the string didn't vibrate freely, making it buzz against the bridge. Unlike buzzing against a single fret - which only covers a very small distance along the string's length - this would buzz over a distance of about 3/4 of an inch; enough to result in the buzz cancelling certain frequencies, altering the vibration of the string, and cancelling out other harmonic frequencies as the buzz continued. The result was nearly identical to the characteristic "sitar" sound. If you look closely at any pictures of the Danelectro/Coral sitar (or a real one), you'll see that the bridge is essentially a flat piece of rosewood. Okay, a brief summary and list of provisos: 1) The sitar sound is not, and cannot be, created by the application of an electronic filter. (Although if you had a mountain of voltage/envelope controlled filters, tuned to different bands, set to somewhat different sensitivities, with somewhat different attack/decay parameters, you just MIGHT be able to fake it electronically, but what a waste of Mutrons!) Roland is probably working on it as we speak, but because it is due to a prolonged cascading physical event that changes with string activation and subsequent bending, it is bloody complex and requires an algorithm that adjusts filtering contingent on pluck strength. If they can't make a digital fuzz that responds decently to picking strength, my guess is that a decent digital sitar emulation is a long way off. 2) The basic sitar sound comes from a string vibrating in very close proximity to a flat (or ever so barely rounded) surface over a distance long enough to affect the amplitude of numerous harmonics along the string's length, while not drastically impairing it's ability to vibrate freely. 3) This effect can be best produced on an instrument where the strings are anchored to a tailpiece separate from the bridge so that they apply the right amount of pressure to the surface of the bridge. 4) Although the sitar sound can be achieved by removal of the bridge saddle, the player loses the correct intonation provided by the saddle. Some compensation can be achieved if the bridge is not fixed to the surface of the guitar, and is moved ahead slightly (so that the rearmost portion of the bridge is sitting roughly where the saddle used to be along the string). 5) An ersatz sitar could probably be constructed on an instrument which uses the Les Paul style of bridge and tailpiece, if the existing bridge is replaced with an appropriately shaped piece of wood. Bear in mind though, that the string needs to rest on the bridge at an angle of about 2-3 degrees between the tailpiece and bridge (i.e., damn near flat) in order to provide the appropriate amount of free movement and pressure. If you can't arrange for this kind of angle, you probably can't produce the sound. Raga on.

7/18/1997 11:41 AM

Mark Hammer

Sitar sounds followup

The original documents and accompanying thread seem to have been lost during the recent Ampage "meltdown", but I thought I'd follow up with a few ideas/comments. Strangely enough, there is absolutely NO silicon germanium involved in this! I feel positively naked.

The assumption of a Coral Electric Sitar (yet another of Vinnie Bell's amazing inventions) on the aforementioned song ("Hooked on a feeling", although it could also be "Cry Like a Baby" by the Box Tops, Alex Chilton's old band) is correct. If you like the sound, there is nothing terribly special about how it was produced. I discovered this around 1966 or so, when sitars were all the rage, and I was trying to figure out what I could squeeze out of my $10 Regent guitar. (I'll tell you about the five-cent acoustic fuzzbox another time).

There is much more to the sound of a true sitar, not the least of which are the elevated frets and the extra drone strings, but the basic "filter-y" sound comes from the string grinding against the bridge, and sequentially eliminating various harmonics out of the plucked note as the string grinds away. On my own guitar, I produced it by simply taking the saddle out of the bridge (easily done since it was a cheap guitar). Without the saddle, the strings rested on the rearmost portion of the bridge (this was a cheapo with a sheet-metal tailpiece and a non-fixed bridge). The bridge being relatively flat, this left a tiny space between the surface of the bridge and the string along that portion of the bridge between the resting point and the fingerboard. The space was just large enough to let the string vibrate, but small enough that the string didn't vibrate freely, making it buzz against the bridge. Unlike buzzing against a single fret - which only covers a very small distance along the string's length - this would buzz over a distance of about 3/4 of an inch; enough to result in the buzz cancelling certain frequencies, altering the vibration of the string, and cancelling out other harmonic frequencies as the buzz continued. The result was nearly identical to the characteristic "sitar" sound. If you look closely at any pictures of the Danelectro/Coral sitar (or a real one), you'll see that the bridge is essentially a flat piece of rosewood.

Okay, a brief summary and list of provisos:

1) The sitar sound is not, and cannot be, created by the application of an electronic filter. (Although if you had a mountain of voltage/envelope controlled filters, tuned to different bands, set to somewhat different sensitivities, with somewhat different attack/decay parameters, you just MIGHT be able to fake it electronically, but what a waste of Mutrons!) Roland is probably working on it as we speak, but because it is due to a prolonged cascading physical event that changes with string activation and subsequent bending, it is bloody complex and requires an algorithm that adjusts filtering contingent on pluck strength. If they can't make a digital fuzz that responds decently to picking strength, my guess is that a decent digital sitar emulation is a long way off.

2) The basic sitar sound comes from a string vibrating in very close proximity to a flat (or ever so barely rounded) surface over a distance long enough to affect the amplitude of numerous harmonics along the string's length, while not drastically impairing it's ability to vibrate freely.

3) This effect can be best produced on an instrument where the strings are anchored to a tailpiece separate from the bridge so that they apply the right amount of pressure to the surface of the bridge.

4) Although the sitar sound can be achieved by removal of the bridge saddle, the player loses the correct intonation provided by the saddle. Some compensation can be achieved if the bridge is not fixed to the surface of the guitar, and is moved ahead slightly (so that the rearmost portion of the bridge is sitting roughly where the saddle used to be along the string).

5) An ersatz sitar could probably be constructed on an instrument which uses the Les Paul style of bridge and tailpiece, if the existing bridge is replaced with an appropriately shaped piece of wood. Bear in mind though, that the string needs to rest on the bridge at an angle of about 2-3 degrees between the tailpiece and bridge (i.e., damn near flat) in order to provide the appropriate amount of free movement and pressure. If you can't arrange for this kind of angle, you probably can't produce the sound.

Raga on.

9/30/1997 5:10 AM
James Reyle	Well: I'm glad somebody posted something on the electric sitar. I've been wanting to make one for a long time and since I have a Emu sampler and guitar synthesizer, I have opted to go this route for the time being. The main thing is to have a good sitar sample. It works very good. You cannot get the electric sitar sound from a standard keyboard synth. What I want to know,did Danelectro loose the patent to the sitar, cause Jerry Jones is now making them, I looked at the Jerry Jones Sitar and the bridge seems to be made out of a bakelight material. The bridge is stairstepped in elevation for each string. The strings rest on a long mass of bakelight, with a 3 point fulcrum adjusting bridge. Quite crude, but does the job. I think you could make one out of any old guitar that has a bridge similar to a tunamatic brige. James Reyle

9/30/1997 5:10 AM

James Reyle

Well:
I'm glad somebody posted something on the
electric sitar. I've been wanting to make one for
a long time and since I have a Emu sampler and
guitar synthesizer, I have opted to go this route
for the time being. The main thing is to have a
good sitar sample. It works very good. You cannot
get the electric sitar sound from a standard
keyboard synth.
What I want to know,did Danelectro loose the
patent to the sitar, cause Jerry Jones is now
making them,

I looked at the Jerry Jones Sitar and the bridge
seems to be made out of a bakelight material. The
bridge is stairstepped in elevation for each string.
The strings rest on a long mass of bakelight, with
a 3 point fulcrum adjusting bridge. Quite crude, but
does the job. I think you could make one out of any
old guitar that has a bridge similar to a tunamatic
brige.

James Reyle

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