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Vintage threads from the first ten years

Re: Brown

5/5/1999 2:45 PM
Jim S.	Re: Brown During EVH's heyday in the 80's, there were several rumours going around about how he got his terrific tone. The first rumour, which turned out to be half true, was that he used a variac to increase the AC voltage going into his Marshall amp. This rumour may have led to - who knows - maybe hundreds of suburban kid's Marshall amps blowing tubes and/or transformers. Later, EVH revealed that he really used the variac to lower, not raise, the AC supply voltage. There has been some speculation that he purposely gave the wrong info to divert other guitarists from copping his tone. I don't know if this is true. Another rumour was that EVH had gotten his '68 Marshall Super Lead modded (by a guy named Jose Arredondo, I think). Nobody knew exactly HOW it was modded though. (Remember when noboby believed an amp could sound THAT GOOD without getting some elusive wizard tech to mod it?) Later on, EVH revealed that the amp's circuit was actually stock -- Jose had done some work on it but no modifications had been made. EVH told the interviewer that Jose was a friend of his and he thought he could bolster his amp repair/mod business by claiming his amp was modified. Another factoid, which I believe is true, is that EVH did not use European-style EL34s in his Super Lead. Instead, he preferred American-style big-bottle 6CA7s. This may have had some impact on his overall tone. I think another reason why players may have struggled unsuccessfully to get EVH's "brown" sound was that they were often using the high-output "distortion"-style humbuckers that were popular during the 80's. EVH said he preferred normal-output vintage-style humbuckers, such as the Seymour Duncan '59 model. I'm sure his pickup choice allowed him to get a warmer, less-harsh, and more dynamic tone than what was commonly heard back then. I have to wonder if the whole variac thing has always gotten too much attention. I'll bet that 95% of the ingredients making up such a great rock guitar sound were: a great player playing a resonant guitar fitted with a warm, medium-output pickup, plugged into a very good example of a vintage plexi Marshall 100 watt head, driving a cabinet containing harmonically rich vintage-style Celestion speakers. (With emphasis on the first item -- the great player!)

5/5/1999 2:45 PM

Jim S.

Re: Brown

During EVH's heyday in the 80's, there were several rumours going around about how he got his terrific tone. The first rumour, which turned out to be half true, was that he used a variac to increase the AC voltage going into his Marshall amp. This rumour may have led to - who knows - maybe hundreds of suburban kid's Marshall amps blowing tubes and/or transformers. Later, EVH revealed that he really used the variac to lower, not raise, the AC supply voltage. There has been some speculation that he purposely gave the wrong info to divert other guitarists from copping his tone. I don't know if this is true.

Another rumour was that EVH had gotten his '68 Marshall Super Lead modded (by a guy named Jose Arredondo, I think). Nobody knew exactly HOW it was modded though. (Remember when noboby believed an amp could sound THAT GOOD without getting some elusive wizard tech to mod it?) Later on, EVH revealed that the amp's circuit was actually stock -- Jose had done some work on it but no modifications had been made. EVH told the interviewer that Jose was a friend of his and he thought he could bolster his amp repair/mod business by claiming his amp was modified.

Another factoid, which I believe is true, is that EVH did not use European-style EL34s in his Super Lead. Instead, he preferred American-style big-bottle 6CA7s. This may have had some impact on his overall tone.

I think another reason why players may have struggled unsuccessfully to get EVH's "brown" sound was that they were often using the high-output "distortion"-style humbuckers that were popular during the 80's. EVH said he preferred normal-output vintage-style humbuckers, such as the Seymour Duncan '59 model. I'm sure his pickup choice allowed him to get a warmer, less-harsh, and more dynamic tone than what was commonly heard back then.

I have to wonder if the whole variac thing has always gotten too much attention. I'll bet that 95% of the ingredients making up such a great rock guitar sound were: a great player playing a resonant guitar fitted with a warm, medium-output pickup, plugged into a very good example of a vintage plexi Marshall 100 watt head, driving a cabinet containing harmonically rich vintage-style Celestion speakers. (With emphasis on the first item -- the great player!)

5/6/1999 5:39 AM
GFR	I remember in one of his first interviews EVH said he used two Marshall amps: one fed with ~90V and the other with ~140V. The first would distort and the second stay clean, and his tone would be a "blend" of the two. He said he had to retube very often and replace OT every 6 months. He also had other three pairs of amps on stage as backup, altough he only used one pair at a time. But you can't really trust what he says in his interviews, since he always contradicts himself in the next one. Another player in whose interviews you can't trust is Jeff Beck.

5/6/1999 5:39 AM

GFR

I remember in one of his first interviews EVH said he used two Marshall amps: one fed with ~90V and the other with ~140V. The first would distort and the second stay clean, and his tone would be a "blend" of the two. He said he had to retube very often and replace OT every 6 months. He also had other three pairs of amps on stage as backup, altough he only used one pair at a time.

But you can't really trust what he says in his interviews, since he always contradicts himself in the next one. Another player in whose interviews you can't trust is Jeff Beck.

5/18/1999 9:02 AM
Rob Ulery	I agree with Jim S. about the pickup being a big factor in the "brown sound." I've been able to get a pretty accurate Van Halen I/II/III sound for years (since way back when everybody was trying to play Eruption!), with pretty simple gear. I think the key is my old Guild/Madeira solidbody guitar with PAF knock-off pickups. It seems like most folks try high-output, high-wind, strong magnet pickups to get the EVH sound. I think it's my vintage-output (e.g., pretty low) pickups that make the difference...

5/18/1999 9:02 AM

Rob Ulery

I agree with Jim S. about the pickup being a big factor in the "brown sound."

I've been able to get a pretty accurate Van Halen I/II/III sound for years (since way back when everybody was trying to play Eruption!), with pretty simple gear.

I think the key is my old Guild/Madeira solidbody guitar with PAF knock-off pickups. It seems like most folks try high-output, high-wind, strong magnet pickups to get the EVH sound. I think it's my vintage-output (e.g., pretty low) pickups that make the difference...

5/6/1999 11:43 AM
John Greene	I have read a few interviews with EVH and it would appear to me that he has a good time in 'inventing' secrets he uses because everyone is so interested in them. The last thing I remember (sort of) reading was him describing how much he liked playing through an old Fender Bandmaster but plugging the speaker into the Ext. speaker jack instead of the speaker out. As we all know, this leaves the output of the transformer shorted and if he got any sound out of it would be surprising. He went on to say how good it sounded but he had to change tubes frequently. Personally I think you can believe less than 10% of what he says in interviews. There are a few people out there that know what he uses and the tone comes a lot from big dollar items, plate reverbs, delays. I understand that the plate reverb unit he uses is over $10K. Although my memory is fading fast on this stuff. --johng

5/6/1999 11:43 AM

John Greene

I have read a few interviews with EVH and it would appear to me that he has a good time in 'inventing' secrets he uses because everyone is so interested in them.

The last thing I remember (sort of) reading was him describing how much he liked playing through an old Fender Bandmaster but plugging the speaker into the Ext. speaker jack instead of the speaker out. As we all know, this leaves the output of the transformer shorted and if he got any sound out of it would be surprising. He went on to say how good it sounded but he had to change tubes frequently.

Personally I think you can believe less than 10% of what he says in interviews.

There are a few people out there that know what he uses and the tone comes a lot from big dollar items, plate reverbs, delays. I understand that the plate reverb unit he uses is over $10K. Although my memory is fading fast on this stuff.

--johng

5/7/1999 1:43 AM
Hi	TEN THOUSAND U.S. DOLLARS FOR A PLATE REVERB? I gotta get ahold of Eddie and tell him about this great land deal in the Everglades... Hi

5/7/1999 6:06 AM
GFR	Well, maybe today he's using pretty expensive gear, but I doubt that so much money was spent in the production of the first VH album. In fact it really SOUNDS like the production was quite cheap and and quick. Anyway, it's commom sense that the guitar tone on the first album is great (and that's what's generally called "brown sound"). The guitar tone on the newer albums where he's using the expensive gear, however, does not sound so good... Some people would even use more emphatic adjectives for it but lets'save my french

5/7/1999 6:06 AM

GFR

Well, maybe today he's using pretty expensive gear, but I doubt that so much money was spent in the production of the first VH album. In fact it really SOUNDS like the production was quite cheap and and quick.

Anyway, it's commom sense that the guitar tone on the first album is great (and that's what's generally called "brown sound").

The guitar tone on the newer albums where he's using the expensive gear, however, does not sound so good... Some people would even use more emphatic adjectives for it but lets'save my french

5/7/1999 10:06 AM
Jim S.	You can get some sound by plugging the speaker of a Fender amp into the ext. spkr jack, but it'll be VERY low volume. The reason is because there's really not that much difference in resistance between the closed (shorted) main spkr jack (especially if the contacts are a little bit dirty) and the speaker itself. This allows for a tiny bit of signal to bleed around the "short" (as long as it's not a PERFECT short) and get to the speaker. I have seen this happen myself when I accidently plugged the speaker into the wrong jack and turned the volume way up trying to hear some sound. In any case, this is DEFINITELY not a recommended way to cut output power to the speaker (not to mention it's EXPENSIVE, given power tube prices these days).

5/7/1999 10:06 AM

Jim S.

You can get some sound by plugging the speaker of a Fender amp into the ext. spkr jack, but it'll be VERY low volume. The reason is because there's really not that much difference in resistance between the closed (shorted) main spkr jack (especially if the contacts are a little bit dirty) and the speaker itself. This allows for a tiny bit of signal to bleed around the "short" (as long as it's not a PERFECT short) and get to the speaker. I have seen this happen myself when I accidently plugged the speaker into the wrong jack and turned the volume way up trying to hear some sound.

In any case, this is DEFINITELY not a recommended way to cut output power to the speaker (not to mention it's EXPENSIVE, given power tube prices these days).

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