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previous: R.G. Let's play thought experiments, wit... -- 4/19/2003 1:36 PM

Re: Interesting theoretical question

4/19/2003 4:16 PM
LFOscalator	Re: Interesting theoretical question Live, one can immediately tell the difference between tube and SS, primarily because there is only one variable, that being the guitar amplifier. Playback, on the other hand is more complicated because recording and playback introduce additional variables that can either warm or sterilize the sound. For example, here's a short list of factors that can contribute to or detract from the listener's ability to detect the tube sound of a recorded tube amplifier: 1. Was the amp recorded using analog or digital? Analog sounds warmer and has a more 'tubelike' quality. 2. Was the mic preamp tube or SS? A tube preamp will tend to 'tubify' the recorded sound. 3. Was a minimalist SS approach used for the mixing board? In other words, was the sound passed through a minimal number of SS stages before it hit the recording device? Less SS devices in the recording path will often yield a warmer sound. 4. What was the musical quality of the mixing board used. Certain brands of mixing boards are more 'musical' sounding than others. 5. Were SS stages in the recording path made with conventional SS or were FET's used. FETs often warm the sound. 6. Was live reverberation included in the recording or was reverberation digitally and artificially produced. Live reverberation will warm the sound. 7. Likewise were digital effects such as chorus or delay used on the guitar, or were analog effects used. Analog effects will sound warmer. 8. Was a SS distortion/fuzz box used in guitar amp signal chain. If so, the guitar amp's sound will have heavy duty SS qualities to it. 9. What type of mic was used to mic the amp? What type of mic was used to mic room reverberation? Condensor mics sound warmer for recording reverberation. Dynamic mics tend to sound warmer for recording guitar amplifiers. 10. What micing technique was used to mic the speaker? What portion of the speaker was miced, the center or the cone? The cone tends to sound warmer. 11. If recorded digitally, what is the quality of the ADC's used for recording. Better analog-to-digital converters sound warmer. 12. If recorded digitally, was dithering used to convert between sample rate and sample depths. Dithering can make the recording sound warmer by introducing randomized noise. Also, some dither programs are better than others in terms of warming the sound. 13. Is playback via analog means such as vinyl or via digital media such as CD? Analog tends to sound warmer. 14. For digital playback, what is the quality of the DAC in the CD player. Better DACs sound more musical and tend to remove some of the digital quality in the sound. 15. Is playback through a tube or an SS amplifier? Also, is the playback preamp tube or SS? 16. If playback is through an SS amp, what is the quality of the amp. High end SS amps sound very different from consumer quality amps at the low end. High end amps remove graininess often asociated with SS devices and may warm the sound. This list could go on and on, but you get the idea. The recorded amp will undergo considerable transformation to the extent that it may be difficult to tell the difference absolutely between a SS and a tube amp upon playback. I have yet to ever hear any recorded instrument that sounds exactly like it does live in real air. Some recordings are close, but yet never quite reproduce the real thing. It's a fact of life. So, the answer to your question is a very noncommital MAYBE. LFO

4/19/2003 4:16 PM

LFOscalator

Re: Interesting theoretical question

Live, one can immediately tell the difference between tube and SS, primarily because there is only one variable, that being the guitar amplifier.

Playback, on the other hand is more complicated because recording and playback introduce additional variables that can either warm or sterilize the sound. For example, here's a short list of factors that can contribute to or detract from the listener's ability to detect the tube sound of a recorded tube amplifier:

1. Was the amp recorded using analog or digital? Analog sounds warmer and has a more 'tubelike' quality.

2. Was the mic preamp tube or SS? A tube preamp will tend to 'tubify' the recorded sound.

3. Was a minimalist SS approach used for the mixing board? In other words, was the sound passed through a minimal number of SS stages before it hit the recording device? Less SS devices in the recording path will often yield a warmer sound.

4. What was the musical quality of the mixing board used. Certain brands of mixing boards are more 'musical' sounding than others.

5. Were SS stages in the recording path made with conventional SS or were FET's used. FETs often warm the sound.

6. Was live reverberation included in the recording or was reverberation digitally and artificially produced. Live reverberation will warm the sound.

7. Likewise were digital effects such as chorus or delay used on the guitar, or were analog effects used. Analog effects will sound warmer.

8. Was a SS distortion/fuzz box used in guitar amp signal chain. If so, the guitar amp's sound will have heavy duty SS qualities to it.

9. What type of mic was used to mic the amp? What type of mic was used to mic room reverberation? Condensor mics sound warmer for recording reverberation. Dynamic mics tend to sound warmer for recording guitar amplifiers.

10. What micing technique was used to mic the speaker? What portion of the speaker was miced, the center or the cone? The cone tends to sound warmer.

11. If recorded digitally, what is the quality of the ADC's used for recording. Better analog-to-digital converters sound warmer.

12. If recorded digitally, was dithering used to convert between sample rate and sample depths. Dithering can make the recording sound warmer by introducing randomized noise. Also, some dither programs are better than others in terms of warming the sound.

13. Is playback via analog means such as vinyl or via digital media such as CD? Analog tends to sound warmer.

14. For digital playback, what is the quality of the DAC in the CD player. Better DACs sound more musical and tend to remove some of the digital quality in the sound.

15. Is playback through a tube or an SS amplifier? Also, is the playback preamp tube or SS?

16. If playback is through an SS amp, what is the quality of the amp. High end SS amps sound very different from consumer quality amps at the low end. High end amps remove graininess often asociated with SS devices and may warm the sound.

This list could go on and on, but you get the idea. The recorded amp will undergo considerable transformation to the extent that it may be difficult to tell the difference absolutely between a SS and a tube amp upon playback.

I have yet to ever hear any recorded instrument that sounds exactly like it does live in real air. Some recordings are close, but yet never quite reproduce the real thing. It's a fact of life.

So, the answer to your question is a very noncommital MAYBE.

LFO